Random observation

[Deveryn]

I mean, if it had just been Dalamud crashing into Eorzea then sure, I can see them having plausible deniability and saying it was actually inspired by FFVII, but having Bahamut, a hulking dragon powered by his rage against humanity, popping out to go on a rampage that reshapes the landscape just like Deathwing did three years prior is a little -too- on the nose.
Of course ARR handled the concept far better than Cataclysm, but let's not deny the obvious inspiration here.

The obvious inspiration was actually the failure of 1.0 and the need to hit the reset button on the game. The FF franchise had the world wrecking dragon before WoW was ever a concept, so let's stop acting like Blizz is the least bit innovative when there's been a ton of source material and inspiration out there for decades.

[Ameela]

But, Bahamut coming along or being summoned to destroy everything is what Bahamut is in many FF games. This stuff is just as relevant to FF. I dont see a borrow from WoW, I see a very clear amalgamation of Final Fantasy concepts.

ARR is very strongly based on FF6 and 7, with a load of other general FF ideas thrown in for good measure.

The obvious inspiration was actually the failure of 1.0 and the need to hit the reset button on the game. The FF franchise had the world wrecking dragon before WoW was ever a concept, so let's stop acting like Blizz is the least bit innovative when there's been a ton of source material and inspiration out there for decades.

Maybe I'm missing something since there's a few FF games I haven't played in more than a decade but I'd be very glad if you could point me to a time where Bahamut (or any dragon really) destroys the world and that's used as the narrative justification for a drastic shift in level design.
AFAIK the only time this happens in FF is with the World of Ruin in FFVI. Maybe Sin in FFX too but that's missing the shift in level design element - and in both cases it's not a dragon in specific that causes it either way.
Plus it's not like XIV doesn't wear its WoW inspirations on its sleeve, the game was reworked in 2.0 to be more like WoW and Yoshi-P has even gone on record saying that he forced the dev team to play WoW up until Mists of Pandaria so they'd have an idea of what a modern MMORPG should play like.

[Tiramu]

Maybe I'm missing something since there's a few FF games I haven't played in more than a decade but I'd be very glad if you could point me to a time where Bahamut (or any dragon really) destroys the world and that's used as the narrative justification for a drastic shift in level design.
AFAIK the only time this happens in FF is with the World of Ruin in FFVI. Maybe Sin in FFX too but that's missing the shift in level design element - and in both cases it's not a dragon in specific that causes it either way.
Plus it's not like XIV doesn't wear its WoW inspirations on its sleeve, the game was reworked in 2.0 to be more like WoW and Yoshi-P has even gone on record saying that he forced the dev team to play WoW up until Mists of Pandaria so they'd have an idea of what a modern MMORPG should play like.

While he might not actually carry out a murderous rampage every time he is an antagonist, the intent to do so, and you having to stop him, is consistent.


Final Fantasy 9:
He is summoned and levels the kingdom of Alexandria. Alexander defends it with a magical shield - while being destroyed in the process, he prevents its total destruction.

Sound somewhat familiar? I think it does, its pretty much the exact same idea, just different setting and defender.

Its one of the games most iconic moments.

Final Fantasy 6:
While not Bahamut, yeah... World of Ruin and the dragon gods.


Final Fantasy 3:
He is the king of dragons and destruction, you have to defeat him because he will destroy the world if you dont. While he doesnt destroy the world, his intent is there.

Final Fantasy 12:
Bahamut is a fortress in the sky reaping havock on the world below. More spiritually similar, but the idea that Bahamut brings destruction to the human world is there.

Final Fantasy 8:
IIRC Bahamut and Tiamat are the dragons aligned to the sourceresses who want to destroy the world. Although I might be mistaken on that part. I remember Tiamat being a boss trying to prevent you reaching Ultimecia in the "other world".

Final Fantasy 11:
He sees humanity as a threat to the planet and sets out to destroy humanity.


He is laying in wait in a few of the other early FF games too.

While you are absolutely correct that XIV draws gameplay inspiration from WoW, I dont believe its doing so with storytelling, at least not in a significsnt way. I think its drawing inspiration from its own series and other SE ips.

[BRVV]

*Insert how that gem from WoW looks like the one from FFXIV*

Bahamut's inspiration is actually a fish from a story, not a dragon. SIN is basically a fish... kinda. So bam! Fish destroys world! If you find that far-fetched... well i think so about a lot of WoW-FFXIV-comparisons. They seem rather selective.

[Atelier-Bagur]

*Insert how that gem from WoW looks like the one from FFXIV*

Bahamut's inspiration is actually a fish from a story, not a dragon. SIN is basically a fish... kinda. So bam! Fish destroys world! If you find that far-fetched... well i think so about a lot of WoW-FFXIV-comparisons. They seem rather selective.

Really, HW's Bismark has callbacks to Sin from FFX in its trial fight imo.

[Ameela]

...

There's quite a big gap between "world destruction" and the convenient power of reshaping the level design into something (arguably in Cata's case) more fun.
This is a pretty big similarity between these two stories and it's bigger than any similarity that the seventh umbral calamity has with any FF game.
If you get defeated by Bahamut in FFIII or XI you just get a Game Over and he presumably is successful in destroying the world, which is not what's being described here.
These are both MMOs which required a heavy redesign of the zones from their original release, which were both justified in the narrative by the cataclysmic rampage of a gigantic dragon, considering XIV ARR was already borrowing so much from WoW on the gameplay side how is it any stretch to believe they wouldn't pay homage to it in the narrative when they're already doing a Cataclysm level revamp of the game anyway?
It's not like it's an insult to be compared to WoW or anything, I know it's the big bad meanie game and it's supposedly atrocious in every way nowadays but there was a time when the Warcraft games were renowned for their storytelling, that's why they made an MMO for it in the first place!

[Renalt]

Oh you and me both. I love coming back after having two days off and just reading all of the drama that has been laid out.

[Tiramu]

There's quite a big gap between "world destruction" and the convenient power of reshaping the level design into something (arguably in Cata's case) more fun.
This is a pretty big similarity between these two stories and it's bigger than any similarity that the seventh umbral calamity has with any FF game.
If you get defeated by Bahamut in FFIII or XI you just get a Game Over and he presumably is successful in destroying the world, which is not what's being described here.
These are both MMOs which required a heavy redesign of the zones from their original release, which were both justified in the narrative by the cataclysmic rampage of a gigantic dragon, considering XIV ARR was already borrowing so much from WoW on the gameplay side how is it any stretch to believe they wouldn't pay homage to it in the narrative when they're already doing a Cataclysm level revamp of the game anyway?
It's not like it's an insult to be compared to WoW or anything, I know it's the big bad meanie game and it's supposedly atrocious in every way nowadays but there was a time when the Warcraft games were renowned for their storytelling, that's why they made an MMO for it in the first place!

The first game I mentioned, FF9, is an almost carbon copy though.


FF9:
Bahamut is summomed to destroy the kingdom of Alexandria and stats laying it to waste. Alexander tries to protect Alexandria with a magical shield and dies in the process but saves it from absolute ruin.

FF14:
Bahamut is summoned to destroy the realm of Eorzea and starts laying it to ruin. Louisaux attempts to save the realm with a magical barrier, and dies in the process, but saves Eorzea from complete destruction.


I dont really see how some other game outside of the FF franchise can be claimed to be the source of inspiration when its an almost carbon copy of Bahamuts attack on Alexandria and almost the entirity of XIV is a mishmash of concepts, narrative points and ideas from previous FF's.

There is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from othwr IP's, WoW or otherwise. But in XIV's case, its clearly drawing from itself.

[Deveryn]

Oh you and me both. I love coming back after having two days off and just reading all of the drama that has been laid out.

It sad what even passes for drama these days. I used to have some heated exchanges on forums. (I even became friends or remained friends with some of those people.) Now it's just these boring children with their cliches. Anyone that I could possibly have a good debate with is on my side.

[Renalt]

So this topic is about gatekeeping now?

They call me....Xuul!

It sad what even passes for drama these days. I used to have some heated exchanges on forums. (I even became friends or remained friends with some of those people.) Now it's just these boring children with their cliches. Anyone that I could possibly have a good debate with is on my side.

Cool Story.