Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[Nutshell]

(and require melee to be balanced with ranged anyways)

No they wouldn't. They would just have to balance within roles if there were four roles to choose from.
They could take MCH, SAM, and BLM from their current groups and put them into a new one. Buff MCH to be around the same level as SAM and BLM and boom all balancing is basically done. People would still bring BRD or DNC even if MCH did 10% more dps because a pranged (which MCH wouldn't be part of the "pranged" role anymore) is required to get that necessary party buff.

I don't actually think they will do what I'm suggesting. It just seems like this is the best way to fix MCH. If they leave it as it is MCH basically has three options. Stay woefully irrelevant in the prange role, be over powered in the prange role, or change MCH into a Bard with a gun, which would just be another step towards homogeneity of dps classes.

[FireMage]

He debates like a 5 year old. All logical fallacies.

Says the one using ad hominem. Also you're wrong given that facts aren't logical fallacies at all

[FireMage]

No they wouldn't. They would just have to balance within roles if there were four roles to choose from.
They could take MCH, SAM, and BLM from their current groups and put them into a new one. Buff MCH to be around the same level as SAM and BLM and boom all balancing is basically done. People would still bring BRD or DNC even if MCH did 10% more dps because a pranged (which MCH wouldn't be part of the "pranged" role anymore) is required to get that necessary party buff.

I don't actually think they will do what I'm suggesting. It just seems like this is the best way to fix MCH. If they leave it as it is MCH basically has three options. Stay woefully irrelevant in the prange role, be over powered in the prange role, or change MCH into a Bard with a gun, which would just be another step towards homogeneity of dps classes.

Or they could properly balance the Jobs and MCH would only do ~1% less than BRD/DNC

[Mithron]

Says the one using ad hominem.

that'sthejoke

If MCH did 1% less than BRD/DNC, why would you ever want a MCH?

[bubblesbutternut]

ok so here is the thing hot take here....... if lets say example here first job does 1 percent more damage than second job if i find the second job more fun i will do moh damage because i enjoy the job i would honestly say a 1 percent damage difference is not something to scream about if you enjoy the job

kinda like how i think pld is more fun over playing dk even when dk was stupid strong i just didnt like the animation cancel you could with dk coz it felt like you were lagging your sandals of

[MagiusNecros]

that'sthejoke

If MCH did 1% less than BRD/DNC, why would you ever want a MCH?

So you can use gun

[CKNovel]

Or they could properly balance the Jobs and MCH would only do ~1% less than BRD/DNC

If MCH did 1% less than BRD/DNC, why would you ever want a MCH?

To be fair, if the difference was only 1%, we would fall within the "all jobs can clear" situation.
MCH would still be at a lower value but still better than this current abomination...
This doesn't means I agree with Firemage, simply that 1% difference is better than the current situation.
The problem would still exist with MCH being 1% below, just that it would be a smaller problem.

By the way, we prouved difficulty can be subjective using "Walking" and "climbing a mountain".
No words from our lord of facts and absolute truth? Or are we going to the next step: "Walking" and "Building a space ship"?

[Mithron]

To be fair, if the difference was only 1%, we would fall within the "all jobs can clear" situation.
MCH would still be at a lower value but still better than this current abomination...
This doesn't means I agree with Firemage, simply that 1% difference is better than the current situation.
The problem would still exist with MCH being 1% below, just that it would be a smaller problem.

It would be absolutely better, but MCH needs to be doing BLM/SAM levels of damage, not BRD/DNC. This is operating under the mindset Firemage has of 3-5% DPS differences, which might be fine, but if you're playing a selfish DPS and know you're contributing less than someone who can also buff others, it feels terrible and ruins your fun.

[FireMage]

that'sthejoke

If MCH did 1% less than BRD/DNC, why would you ever want a MCH?

Because 1% is very insignificant. See that's the point. The dev team must balance around two ideals: Any standard comp can clear and proper balance. The former basically makes it so that proper balance tiers must be squished to such that even from the ceiling to the floor of optimization that everything is still relative to one another

[FireMage]

It would be absolutely better, but MCH needs to be doing BLM/SAM levels of damage, not BRD/DNC. This is operating under the mindset Firemage has of 3-5% DPS differences, which might be fine, but if you're playing a selfish DPS and know you're contributing less than someone who can also buff others, it feels terrible and ruins your fun.

Selfish DPS or not is irrelevant. rDPS is your DPS, the only difference is that you need to worry about other people pushing buttons for it, but in a high end setting that's a non factor. MCH being at practically the top would do nothing but spit on every other Job given it's sheer amount of ease of play. It belongs at the bottom with SMN, which again would with proper balance still be viable because ~5% from top to bottom isn't a big deal and would be better balance than we've ever had