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  1. #1
    Player FireMage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    1,050
    Character
    Firemage Li
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransu View Post
    This is beyond a stupid take
    No, it's the correct one. Proper balance dictates it

    Quote Originally Posted by Keiisuke View Post
    Regarding the statement that the MCH should be last, it makes me laugh.
    When SAM is at the top of the chart in aDPS, and also top 3 in rDPS no one gives a flying F, but when we start talking about the MCH, hell no dude. People are gatekeeping the job, preventing him from being where he should be.

    If people are so mad they can't accept that in the game a ranged DPS can do more damage than a melee, then give the job some utility so we can finally justify his place in the Physical Ranged DPS category.
    Because MCH doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the top, it has the 2nd easiest rotation of the DPS, and full uptime potential with no need for strats made for its uptime (unlike melee). Proper balance would have it basically tied with SMN
    (1)
    Last edited by FireMage; 09-26-2022 at 02:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    No, it's the correct one. Proper balance dictates it
    It's not balance. This mindset is incredibly stupid. How difficult a job is or is not to play should have ZERO impact on its performance, end of story. Mobility and raid utility are the only thing that should matter.
    (25)

  3. #3
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    No, it's the correct one. Proper balance dictates it
    Because MCH doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the top, it has the 2nd easiest rotation of the DPS, and full uptime potential with no need for strats made for its uptime (unlike melee). Proper balance would have it basically tied with SMN
    Because you said so doesn't mean it's a fact.
    No job "deserves" to be at said spot. If it's not in the correct one, it will remain in the gutter.
    Jobs are merely tools to clear content, we don't care if a tool is easy to use or not. We only care if the tool is efficient to use.

    Difficulty is subjective and that's a consensus among multiple community.
    Even here, you're the only one arguing it isn't.
    (18)

  4. #4
    Player
    Keiisuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    48
    Character
    Sanada Shishio
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    MCH doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the top
    It's not a matter of merit, but ok, it's your point of view. Feel free to think so, but neither you nor I can decide that for SE.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    it has the 2nd easiest rotation of the DPS
    Again, difficulty is subjective. If you find it easy, good for you, but you can't speak for the 24 million of players.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    full uptime potential with no need for strats made for its uptime (unlike melee)
    Can we still bring uptime as an argument these days? This may have been the case a few years ago but not anymore.
    (19)

  5. #5
    Player
    ZiraZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    536
    Character
    Zira Zira
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Red Mage confirmed easiest job ever.
    But also, every dps job needs personal defensives in 7.0 if we're going this route, naturally everyone having access to defensives would mean they should shift some of the healer responsibilities to the dps players own defensive usage, no press = die, if they are gonna keep stuff like riddle on earth and want to shrink down all the taxes and make us all equals, then everyone needs a defensive, and if everyone gets a defensive then it needs to become a major part of the playstyle.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Sunhwapark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    594
    Character
    Dear Boy
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiraZ View Post
    if everyone gets a defensive then it needs to become a major part of the playstyle.
    It could happen, I remember when phys ranged had no arm's length at all when the rest of the party could prevent kb and were basically at the mercy of plds to get a cover +tempered will on some fights, kind of glad that we don't have to deal with situations anymore like Sigmascape v1 Savage where Machinists would be given a death sentence because the melee killed the only available safety boxes for the next knockback mechanic. Bards at least had repelling shot to cancel those kinds of lethal knockbacks.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Semirhage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Nemene Damendar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    No, it's the correct one. Proper balance dictates it
    I've sat through enough dissertations on the healer subforum explaining why WHM "properly" deserves to have the stupidest, least interactive gameplay (it's the intro healer!), and therefore deserves to have the weakest output (more effort properly means more damage!), while also having a non-advantage (but it's the HEALIEST healer! Never you mind that it isn't true and isn't an advantage either in a game where Squeenix wants all healing outputs to be adequate).

    No. Begone with this. I've heard "this job I don't play only naturally deserves to be worse than mine in every way because because because wah wah blah blah yak yak yak" enough times to roll my eyes off a cliff.
    (18)

  8. #8
    Player
    Nutshell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    26
    Character
    Toto Africa
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    I've believed for a while now that if they just took BLM, SAM, and MCH and put them into their own dps group SE could fix a lot of their balancing issues.

    Instead of needing one dps from each of three groups and then a floater like we have now just make it so we need one dps from each of the four groups(melee, magic, ranged, selfish) to get the party buffs required to clear current savage level content. This way they could buff MCH to what ever level they want and people will still play DNC and BRD because every savage party would need one to get that party buff.
    (3)

  9. #9
    Player
    SaberMaxwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,244
    Character
    Saber Maxwell
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Only way I can see OP working is if the recategorization changed the 1% buff from 1t/1h/1m/1r/1c to 1t/1h/1 selfish/1 mid sup/ 1 heavy sup.

    Even then I'm dubious about using aDPS as the primary measure for this. I'm clearly in the minority though since measuring how a job uses buffs (but not the padded ones) is according to people more useful than the average contribution that buff gives in addition to the damage of the job that brings it. I'll get off my soapbox though.

    Only other solution I could think of would be to canonize the support role, make it yellow or something, and condenn assign whatever jobs SE has stopped considering DPS to it.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    Aikaal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    936
    Character
    Aikaal Leyma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    It's really not. There isn't a single case where SMN is harder than RDM. There isn't a single case where MCH is harder than DNC/BRD. Also it's already "not brought" but it would at least do more damage with proper balance
    Difficulty is subjective and depends on what you do. If you play to optimize. I'm sorry to say this but RDM is easier to optimize than SMN.

    I pointed it a few times but it is impossible to optimize SMN. Sure the rotation is braindead but the rotation of RDM is also pretty braindead. But to the very least, RDM can work around to move their burst window. SMN? You either desync or force the party to rebuff on a bad timing. That's objectively more difficult to handle.

    Anyways, I know people will disagree but that's just how I see it. I don't find any role difficult in the DPS spot. Melee have never been so easy than Endwalker. They're a ranged physical with a 10% damage buff.
    (3)

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