Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[Reimmi]

No, absolutely not. That is not actual balance, even ASSUMING full uptime MCH should be lower than every other Job on rDPS, sans SMN which it should be tied with. It is weaker than it should be, but it should still be the bottom of the ceiling

Sorry but difficulty should never matter for a jobs DPS
it's not like the players chose for summoner to be braindead easy

[Azuri]

Ignoring that the list ranking is kinda yikes (Functionally, Mug is the exact same as Embolden. Why are RDM and NIN in different groups?) and calling damage buffs "support" is a meme, the fundamental flaw of your logic is that aDPS is not a function of simply damage, it also depends on damage distribution.

Burst heavy jobs simply have more aDPS by default. SAM and NIN are aDPS monsters with how concentrated their burst is. On the other hand, BLM or DRG simply can't compete because their potency is more spread out and they are fundamentally incapable of utilizing 20 second buff window as well as other jobs. The same happens in every other role. RDM vs. SMN, MCH vs. DNC, WAR vs. DRK. It's really not that simple to just say that X job should do more aDPS because it doesn't have a damage buff. Unless of course we design every job like DRK...

[darcstar62]

I agree that RDMs current buffs aren't good enough to qualify them as "Heavy Support" (as you said, Embolden needs more impact to do that, and I feel like it needs more abilities in that are like DNC/BRD). But the danger of moving RDM in this direction is that it puts more pressure on the other heavy support jobs - unlike selfish dps and mid-support, you aren't going to want more than one of them in your party because of they way they scale.

[FireMage]

Difficulty is subjective.

It's really not. There isn't a single case where SMN is harder than RDM. There isn't a single case where MCH is harder than DNC/BRD. Also it's already "not brought" but it would at least do more damage with proper balance

[MichiKyou]

It's really not. There isn't a single case where SMN is harder than RDM. There isn't a single case where MCH is harder than DNC/BRD. Also it's already "not brought" but it would at least do more damage with proper balance

Difficulty is subjective.

Mechanist requires multiple instances of weaving, and has a much mroe rigit button presses per minute than RDM or most other classes (barring Ninja)
I find machinist much more difficult than RDM due to latency and other factors.

People find different things difficult. Thats just the truth of the world.
Difficulty of class should NEVER be brought into balance discussions - just utility.

But please, show me your perfect 100 parse on a savage fight, if the job is so 'easy'.

[Keiisuke]

Considering difficulty? How? From whose point of view? It's purely subjective, we all have different affinities with certain types of gameplay.
The MCH is designed as a selfish DPS, the job has nothing else to offer. Therefore, he should bring damage to the party the same way a SAM or BLM do, maybe not the same numbers giving that the machinist has more mobility (depends on how we see things today), but he should not be that far behind the two others in terms of ADPs.

Regarding the statement that the MCH should be last, it makes me laugh.
When SAM is at the top of the chart in aDPS, and also top 3 in rDPS no one gives a flying F, but when we start talking about the MCH, hell no dude. People are gatekeeping the job, preventing him from being where he should be.

If people are so mad they can't accept that in the game a ranged DPS can do more damage than a melee, then give the job some utility so we can finally justify his place in the Physical Ranged DPS category.

[Absurdity]

Regarding the statement that the MCH should be last, it makes me laugh.
When SAM is at the top of the chart in aDPS, and also top 3 in rDPS no one gives a flying F, but when we start talking about the MCH, hell no dude. People are gatekeeping the job, preventing him from being where he should be.

It's also funny because it presumes that this game didn't exist until ShB. Yeah yeah, Shadowbringers is probably when a majority of these people started playing but did everyone else get dementia? Not like Bard and Machinist weren't some of the top dps in Heavensward and Stormblood.

In Heavensward they were able to keep up with BLM and MNK despite rDPS not even existing, everything back then was basically just aDPS but with single target padding getting added to your dps as well.
The same goes for Stormblood where Bard and Machinist could still keep up with some of the top dps jobs, just not quite as well since Samurai and Black Mage were completely busted, and Machinist had one of the most convoluted and punishing rotations ever.

[MichiKyou]

In Heavensward they were able to keep up with BLM and MNK despite rDPS not even existing, everything back then was basically just aDPS but with single target padding getting added to your dps as well.
The same goes for Stormblood where Bard and Machinist could still keep up with some of the top dps jobs, just not quite as well since Samurai and Black Mage were completely busted, and Machinist had one of the most convoluted and punishing rotations ever.

Miss half a second off your cast of Drill/chain/saw?
Time to lose all your dps.

[Absurdity]

Miss half a second off your cast of Drill/chain/saw?
Time to lose all your dps.

I don't think current machinist is as easy as people claim either, atleast when you're trying to optimize it and not just press random buttons.

Your big hitters like Air Anchor, Chain Saw and Drill can easily start to drift when you mess up at specific points, but it still doesn't come close to the nonsense that was this

Where a single mistake or unfortunate phase change timings could cost you a ridiculous amount of dps.

[CKNovel]

I don't think current machinist is as easy as people claim either, atleast when you're trying to optimize it and not just press random buttons.

Your big hitters like Air Anchor, Chain Saw and Drill can easily start to drift when you mess up at specific points, but it still doesn't come close to the nonsense that was this
Where a single mistake or unfortunate phase change timings could cost you a ridiculous amount of dps.

MCH became incredibly rigid it's easily among the most rigid jobs as of now. Wildfire and Barrel Stabilizer are clogging the heat at the 2 minutes.
Flexibility allows skill expression and Rigidity just punishes you if you don't execute perfectly the rotation.

And MCH is designed with 2 gauges and short CD with a sustained DPS.
Everytime there's a downtime higher than 20s, you lose a drill, 20-30 battery and 30-40 heat while Air Anchor, Chain saw and Wildfire benefits from it.
Jobs like Dancer doesn't suffer from job gauge at all, in fact they most likely benefits from downtime. And jobs like Dancer are extremely flexible.