Ideas For a Paladin Rework

[Khan_Sado]

I think the 1% damage difference is fine too, but the way the devs made everything into 2min now, even if the damage output from 2 jobs were theoretically the same, you can have an 1% difference just being lucky/unlucky from crit direct hits inside the buff window, this is why I want PLD (and WAR) to be closer to DRK/GNB damage. Imagine if they changed PLD, make its rotation boring and easier, design with a 1% damage output lower difference from top dps tanks, but because DRK/GNB capitalize better from party buffs, PLD would be behind 2~3% from a aDPS perspective and everyone will meme about PLD being bad again.

Tbh I want the rotation to be as close as possible from what we already have, but to be able to fit our big moves on the buff window, and kill the -18 FoF opener please. What I want the most (and fear they won't touch) is the mitigation aspect, like we already talked a bunch: cover, bleeds, invul.

[esra01]

Not Like Intervention is the shared equivalent of just using a something like HOC or TBN on a party member... wait it is but it's slightly worse then the one for yourself.. that's great! Even storing 2 so you can use one on the MT and self is so redundant, Warrior gets the heal effect on both and the MIT for the MT, they could just use rampart and that's a better effect, lets ignore that drk can use oblation and TBN and gunbreaker can use auora and HOC.

Intervention isn't a 3rd CD, it's just Holy shelltron for a friend enough said.

Alright look, I think both of us are not talking on the same page here, even though we are talking about the same mitigation, I don't think we have the same content in mind. My previous comment is written with my previous experience in savage and ultimate content, where both tanks are going to take 250.000 damage in a single hit ( DSR ) or a 110.000 Tankbuster Damage followed by 33.000 x 5 DoT damage that totals to 275.000 Damage (P7S). If we are talking about that level of content, then PLD quite surprisingly have better mitigation tools compared to WAR/DRK/GNB in a single large hit tankbuster, and for DoT based tankbuster PLD is still beating DRK/GNB with WAR only be able to beat PLD if Thrill of Battle is off cooldown.

I also have the numbers to back up my statement that Intervention isn't just a Holy Shelltron for a friend. If you are willing to discuss it further then I would be happy to crunch the numbers for you

[Rithy255]

Alright look, I think both of us are not talking on the same page here, even though we are talking about the same mitigation, I don't think we have the same content in mind. My previous comment is written with my previous experience in savage and ultimate content, where both tanks are going to take 250.000 damage in a single hit ( DSR ) or a 110.000 Tankbuster Damage followed by 33.000 x 5 DoT damage that totals to 275.000 Damage (P7S). If we are talking about that level of content, then PLD quite surprisingly have better mitigation tools compared to WAR/DRK/GNB in a single large hit tankbuster, and for DoT based tankbuster PLD is still beating DRK/GNB with WAR only be able to beat PLD if Thrill of Battle is off cooldown.

I also have the numbers to back up my statement that Intervention isn't just a Holy Shelltron for a friend. If you are willing to discuss it further then I would be happy to crunch the numbers for you

I don't think You can view Intervention as a extra because it's so heavily tied to Holy Shelltron, If you split HOC or TBN one that has a similar effect, both share the same Cooldown on a ally, while on paper it would be a extra CD, it's really not, if you made Holy shelltron targetable and removed intervention they would bassically serve the same purpose as it currently does (maybe reduce the recast to be 2 seconds).

Storing Oath at 100, is generally like having 2 stacks of your Gauge spenders, you can spread out its uses to both tanks but it will also take longer to get both back, of course it's a massive benefit and I won't try to underplay it, I wouldn't know the exact numbers but people generally say PLD takes the most general damage out of all the tanks.

Would be nice to know the exact numbers, To be fair I haven't played ultimate content PLD's mitigations are pretty different that it might work out better in some sorts of content, But generally what I've heard is that PLD's the weakest tank and it does generally seem to show, It's undeniable that some of its "advantages" are very situational and clunky, abilites such as cover exist, DV while strong doesn't need to be clunky, passage doesn't need to be either, even if it's "acceptable in x content"

[esra01]

...

Alright so let's test the mitigation at 1 scenario. Which is the heavy hitting 250.000 Damage tankbuster that targets both tanks. And let's assume both tanks have 100.000 Health

For this all tanks have to use all of their cooldowns to be able to survive the tankbuster. Which is Rampart + 30% Mitigation + Reprisal + 3rd button (Dark Mind/Thrill/Camo) + Personal (TBN/Shell/HoC/BW/Interv).

WAR = 20% + 30% + 10% + (10% + 10%) = 59.17% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 59.17% - 20.000 = 82.060 Damage

GNB = 20% + 30% + 10% + 10% + (15% + 15%) = 67.22% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 67.22% = 81.931 Damage

DRK = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 10% = 63.71% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 63.71% - 25.000 = 65.720 Damage

PLD = 20% + 30% + 10% + ( 20% + 15% ) = 65.72% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 65.72% = 85.680 Damage

So those are damage taken individually if each tank are only using cooldown for themself. Now to test Intervention, let's take 3 tank combination, DRK+GNB, DRK+PLD, GNB + PLD. With PLD using Shell + Interv, and the co-tank in PLD pairing uses their personal on PLD to maximize the % mitigation on both tanks.

GNB & DRK
GNB = 20% + 30% + 10% + 10% + (15% + 15%) = 67.22%
= 250.000 * 67.22% = 81.931 Damage

DRK = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 10% = 63.71%
= 250.000 * 63.71% - 25.000 = 65.720 Damage

Total Damage Taken = 147.651 Damage

PLD & DRK
DRK = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 10% + (20% + 10%) = 73.87%
= 250.000 * 73.87% = 65.318 Damage

PLD = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 15% = 65.72%
= 250.000 * 65.72% - 25.000 = 60.680 Damage

Total Damage Taken = 125.998 Damage

PLD & GNB
GNB = 20% + 30% + 10% + 10% + (20% + 10%) = 67.34%
= 250.000 * 67.34% = 81.648 Damage

PLD = 20% + 30% + 10% + (20% + 15%) + (15% + 15%) = 75.23%
= 250.000 * 73.78% = 62.903 Damage

Total Damage Taken = 144.551 Damage

So from the tests above, PLD is going to be operating at the same level of DRK in terms of mitigation. Even if the co-tank is un-cooperative and choose to your their own personal on themself, the total damage taken will just be a little bit higher due to inefficient mitigation % stacking.

Also what makes Intervention unique compared to all buttons is as you said it can be stored to have 2 stacks. Usually on Savage/Ultimate tankbusters would be spread 60-90 seconds aparts. With PLD gauge restoring 1 usage of Shelltron at a rate of 20 seconds, a PLD can easily stock up 2 charges while still using 1-2 Holy Shelltron in between tankbusters

[Mithron]

Alright so let's test the mitigation at 1 scenario. Which is the heavy hitting 250.000 Damage tankbuster that targets both tanks. And let's assume both tanks have 100.000 Health

For this all tanks have to use all of their cooldowns to be able to survive the tankbuster. Which is Rampart + 30% Mitigation + Reprisal + 3rd button (Dark Mind/Thrill/Camo) + Personal (TBN/Shell/HoC/BW/Interv).

WAR = 20% + 30% + 10% + (10% + 10%) = 59.17% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 59.17% - 20.000 = 82.060 Damage

GNB = 20% + 30% + 10% + 10% + (15% + 15%) = 67.22% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 67.22% = 81.931 Damage

DRK = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 10% = 63.71% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 63.71% - 25.000 = 65.720 Damage

PLD = 20% + 30% + 10% + ( 20% + 15% ) = 65.72% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 65.72% = 85.680 Damage

So... PLD has the worst mitigation of all the tanks because it takes the most damage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Commander_Justitia]

You guys know pld can block right?

[Elizasylen]

You guys know pld can block right?

You ever tried to block a poison or a bleed?

[esra01]

So... PLD has the worst mitigation of all the tanks because it takes the most damage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Have you sir tried reading more than half of my comment

[Undeadfire]

You guys know pld can block right?

DOTs are not calculated on Shield Blocks, specially current tier busters.

[Zarkovitch]

PLD should get buff on the defense side such Holy Sheltron should block bleed or sentinel old mitigation of 40% back and gain old cover back due now all tank classes are somewhat busted nowdays.Seriously, pld feels like in defense side like we are going to hw pld turf which is bad. As for 1/2 mins burst windows, I'm ok with it but the real question is, are they going be busted as ninja with the burst or weak as smn rework. With the "Changes" they did on this expansion for jobs im expecting pld to be busted af due to ninja "Changes".