Ideas For a Paladin Rework

[esra01]

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Alright so let's test the mitigation at 1 scenario. Which is the heavy hitting 250.000 Damage tankbuster that targets both tanks. And let's assume both tanks have 100.000 Health

For this all tanks have to use all of their cooldowns to be able to survive the tankbuster. Which is Rampart + 30% Mitigation + Reprisal + 3rd button (Dark Mind/Thrill/Camo) + Personal (TBN/Shell/HoC/BW/Interv).

WAR = 20% + 30% + 10% + (10% + 10%) = 59.17% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 59.17% - 20.000 = 82.060 Damage

GNB = 20% + 30% + 10% + 10% + (15% + 15%) = 67.22% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 67.22% = 81.931 Damage

DRK = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 10% = 63.71% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 63.71% - 25.000 = 65.720 Damage

PLD = 20% + 30% + 10% + ( 20% + 15% ) = 65.72% Mitigation
= 250.000 * 65.72% = 85.680 Damage

So those are damage taken individually if each tank are only using cooldown for themself. Now to test Intervention, let's take 3 tank combination, DRK+GNB, DRK+PLD, GNB + PLD. With PLD using Shell + Interv, and the co-tank in PLD pairing uses their personal on PLD to maximize the % mitigation on both tanks.

GNB & DRK
GNB = 20% + 30% + 10% + 10% + (15% + 15%) = 67.22%
= 250.000 * 67.22% = 81.931 Damage

DRK = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 10% = 63.71%
= 250.000 * 63.71% - 25.000 = 65.720 Damage

Total Damage Taken = 147.651 Damage

PLD & DRK
DRK = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 10% + (20% + 10%) = 73.87%
= 250.000 * 73.87% = 65.318 Damage

PLD = 20% + 30% + 10% + 20% + 15% = 65.72%
= 250.000 * 65.72% - 25.000 = 60.680 Damage

Total Damage Taken = 125.998 Damage

PLD & GNB
GNB = 20% + 30% + 10% + 10% + (20% + 10%) = 67.34%
= 250.000 * 67.34% = 81.648 Damage

PLD = 20% + 30% + 10% + (20% + 15%) + (15% + 15%) = 75.23%
= 250.000 * 73.78% = 62.903 Damage

Total Damage Taken = 144.551 Damage

So from the tests above, PLD is going to be operating at the same level of DRK in terms of mitigation. Even if the co-tank is un-cooperative and choose to your their own personal on themself, the total damage taken will just be a little bit higher due to inefficient mitigation % stacking.

Also what makes Intervention unique compared to all buttons is as you said it can be stored to have 2 stacks. Usually on Savage/Ultimate tankbusters would be spread 60-90 seconds aparts. With PLD gauge restoring 1 usage of Shelltron at a rate of 20 seconds, a PLD can easily stock up 2 charges while still using 1-2 Holy Shelltron in between tankbusters

[Elizasylen]

I agree that output is the only thing that matters but at this point we’re talking about losing the Paladin job identity. I don’t mind doing less than the other tanks in output when they give tools that make me feel good about playing the job itself. I think strengthening support helps retain the inherent job fantasy about a sword and shield character.

[Rithy255]

I agree that output is the only thing that matters but at this point we’re talking about losing the Paladin job identity. I don’t mind doing less than the other tanks in output when they give tools that make me feel good about playing the job itself. I think strengthening support helps retain the inherent job fantasy about a sword and shield character.

Output sure matters I just think, over things can matter.
Like if a tank is 1% behind that's fine, I think it's alright if a certain job does more then another job of it's category, If it's more then 1-2% it becomes questionable, I think it's fine to want PLD's (even warriors) output further buffed.

I personally dislike how Paladin the job that's meant to be and generally always is about party protection and high defensives, is the job with really bad defensives in comparison and "meh" utility, I don't see how buffing PLD's defensives to be more in line or even better in some situations is a "bad" thing, I enjoy the job from rotational and looks I just wish the defensives were actually looked at, Cover hasn't been touched in two expansions despite being useless on PLD.

I felt a bit annoyed that everything is becoming Damage focused because now PLD's rotation is likely going to suck it's defensives are already pretty bad and I'll just end up moving to another tank like Gunbreaker, I think it's fine if certain jobs aren't "meta" if it means we can have more intresting jobs and design, "120" windows was added so no job was falling behind in certain fights, we should be wanting more diverse kits more diverse buffs and utility for the game, not only focus on "da damage"

Of course damage balancing is Very Important but dismissing any change that isn't "damage" focused is also just unhealthy to the game, it's fine if a job performs slightly worse then another in damage output, but has higher utility or something as a trade off.

[Elizasylen]

Output sure matters I just think, over things can matter.
Like if a tank is 1% behind that's fine, I think it's alright if a certain job does more then another job of it's category, If it's more then 1-2% it becomes questionable, I think it's fine to want PLD's (even warriors) output further buffed.

I personally dislike how Paladin the job that's meant to be and generally always is about party protection and high defensives, is the job with really bad defensives in comparison and "meh" utility, I don't see how buffing PLD's defensives to be more in line or even better in some situations is a "bad" thing, I enjoy the job from rotational and looks I just wish the defensives were actually looked at, Cover hasn't been touched in two expansions despite being useless on PLD.

I felt a bit annoyed that everything is becoming Damage focused because now PLD's rotation is likely going to suck it's defensives are already pretty bad and I'll just end up moving to another tank like Gunbreaker, I think it's fine if certain jobs aren't "meta" if it means we can have more intresting jobs and design, "120" windows was added so no job was falling behind in certain fights, we should be wanting more diverse kits more diverse buffs and utility for the game, not only focus on "da damage"

Of course damage balancing is Very Important but dismissing any change that isn't "damage" focused is also just unhealthy to the game, it's fine if a job performs slightly worse then another in damage output, but has higher utility or something as a trade off.

Though the suggestions i offered were exaggerated and heavy handed the intentions were to lean into the more carry support role. Something that would offer utilities that helped forgive mistakes in less organized PF scenarios. While not lagging too hard in output. Yes not preferred by the high end speed killers but has a niche in making a fight slightly more forgiving to mistakes that would otherwise be completely fatal. Sometimes it’s not about the numbers but doing something cool and saving a run. Just like healer LB3 or a Tank LB3.

[Rithy255]

Though the suggestions i offered were exaggerated and heavy handed the intentions were to lean into the more carry support role. Something that would offer utilities that helped forgive mistakes in less organized PF scenarios. While not lagging too hard in output. Yes not preferred by the high end speed killers but has a niche in making a fight slightly more forgiving to mistakes that would otherwise be completely fatal. Sometimes it’s not about the numbers but doing something cool and saving a run. Just like healer LB3 or a Tank LB3.

Eh DV change should be a thing, Cover needs a overhaul that version might be too strong tbf, Wings need a general change I rather they work similar to white mage wings, I rather PLD get a OCGD healing ability and holyspirt/blades combos nerfed, as I don't like that a lot of your sustain is currently tied to damage rotation

[Khan_Sado]

I think the 1% damage difference is fine too, but the way the devs made everything into 2min now, even if the damage output from 2 jobs were theoretically the same, you can have an 1% difference just being lucky/unlucky from crit direct hits inside the buff window, this is why I want PLD (and WAR) to be closer to DRK/GNB damage. Imagine if they changed PLD, make its rotation boring and easier, design with a 1% damage output lower difference from top dps tanks, but because DRK/GNB capitalize better from party buffs, PLD would be behind 2~3% from a aDPS perspective and everyone will meme about PLD being bad again.

Tbh I want the rotation to be as close as possible from what we already have, but to be able to fit our big moves on the buff window, and kill the -18 FoF opener please. What I want the most (and fear they won't touch) is the mitigation aspect, like we already talked a bunch: cover, bleeds, invul.

[Commander_Justitia]

You guys know pld can block right?

[Undeadfire]

You guys know pld can block right?

DOTs are not calculated on Shield Blocks, specially current tier busters.

[Espon]

DOTs are not calculated on Shield Blocks, specially current tier busters.

Not to mention that you cannot blocked when stunned, even with Holy Sheltron.

[Elizasylen]

You guys know pld can block right?

You ever tried to block a poison or a bleed?