Ideas For a Paladin Rework

[Mithron]

Simple words, wouldn't work current game state. Paladin would become a meme tank overall and never taken in Savage/Ultimate. Having higher def than others doesn't make a bit of difference with player skill, the higher DPS jobs will always take their place. DPS has always been a dominant force in 14, including majority of RPGs.

Players don't want to spend longer time just to play a safe game, when putting effort is a higher reward and safer than making the fights longer.

Would be fine if rDPS was within 1% of each other. So yes, PLD technically lowest rDPS, but not more than 1% against highest rDPS tank.

[Undeadfire]

Would be fine if rDPS was within 1% of each other. So yes, PLD technically lowest rDPS, but not more than 1% against highest rDPS tank.

I would look into aDPS more than rDPS.

Paladin loses hardcore against Drk/Gnb, nothing to use in raid buff window.

Warrior only has a short time raid buff window.

Gnb/Drk have lengths more attacks in raid buff windows they're a league ahead. Majority of players don't capitalize raid buffs and pot timings, it's pretty sad however very optimal.

[Mithron]

I would look into aDPS more than rDPS.

Paladin loses hardcore against Drk/Gnb, nothing to use in raid buff window.

Warrior only has a short time raid buff window.

Gnb/Drk have lengths more attacks in raid buff windows they're a league ahead. Majority of players don't capitalize raid buffs and pot timings, it's pretty sad however very optimal.

Yeah I guess aDPS does matter for tanks more. I know PLD is lowest and they should be, but it shouldn't be by much ideally.

[MagiusNecros]

If Paldin DPS is low then the defense must be high and because DPS is low PLD will not be valued. : )

[TabrisOmbrelame]

If Paldin DPS is low then the defense must be high and because DPS is low PLD will not be valued. : )

Paladin's Defense is already high compared to other tanks ! Show me through number why Paladin should have such a massive defense boost allowing them to be almost invincible.

[MagiusNecros]

Paladin's Defense is already high compared to other tanks ! Show me through number why Paladin should have such a massive defense boost allowing them to be almost invincible.

Show me why it shouldn't. I'm bad at maths. I'm not looking for equal mitigation. I'm looking for more mitigation.

Why should GNB have all it's defensives and it's high DPS?

And if PLD defense is so good why are they not chosen to be MT? Let me guess. Damage?

[Mikey_R]

Why should GNB have all it's defensives and it's high DPS?

And if PLD defense is so good why are they not chosen to be MT? Let me guess. Damage?

Just to address these 2 points:

1. All tanks need to be able to tank all content, so they need to have the mitigation kit to be able to do it. This is why every tank has some sort of basic mitigation kit, short cooldown, rampart, 2 minute, invuln, raid mit. With the way most encounters are setup, the only real damaging things are the mechanics and not so much the auto attacks (though they can be more of a nuisance in some fights). Every tank can deal with each mechanic, therefore the last thing to compare tanks with is their damage contribution.

2. They have better tools for and OT, however, the idea of a MT and OT in extreme, savage and ultimate fights really doesn't exist. Both tanks will be tanking the boss at some point and they should be helping each other mitigate damage.

So, to recap, every tank has the tools to effectively mitigate damage in every fight, any extra and it is essentially superfluous. There are also no dedicated MT or OT tanks, all tanks can fill both roles due to tank swaps forcing both tanks to be in the MT position. So, what is left to measure tanks by? Their damage. If damage is close enough, people tend to not care, however, if the discrepancy is too high, and you bring a tank who does significantly less, then you force everyone else to make up that difference. At that point, why not just bring another, high damage tank to make the margin of error bigger?

[Rithy255]

Paladin's Defense is already high compared to other tanks ! Show me through number why Paladin should have such a massive defense boost allowing them to be almost invincible.

Dark knight, Warrior and Gunbreaker in comparison
>All get a extra defensive cooldown.
>They get another support/defensive 60 second cd in aurora, Oblation and Equilibrium
>They all benefit from their own party utility PLD does not.
>PLD's blocks don't work against things such as dots, surpise they have a lot of them this raid tier.
>Unlike warrior PLD doesn't have control over most of its self healing.
>Longest Invul in the game, compared to warrior its a joke.
>Intervention is just a worse version of holy Shelltron, other tanks targeted short cds are the same, or better in warrior/gnb case.

Yeah no PLD is easily the weakest tank defensively bar none. It's a joke compared to the other tanks in raiding content.

[MagiusNecros]

So you do bring certain Tanks for their damage. PLD/WAR for Progression/Learning an encounter. DRK/GNB for damage once you know what will happen.

Therefore long term mitigation doesn't particularly matter which is the problem IMO. Being a Tank should focus on being defensive first and damage output later. Which is clearly not the case.

But that's just a symptom of the dark age of homogenization where everyone is a DPS where the only thing that matters is high damage all the time.

So it ends up just being play the Flavor of the Month Tank.

[Mikey_R]

1) So you do bring certain Tanks for their damage. PLD/WAR for Progression/Learning an encounter. DRK/GNB for damage once you know what will happen.

2) Therefore long term mitigation doesn't particularly matter which is the problem IMO. Being a Tank should focus on being defensive first and damage output later. Which is clearly not the case.

3) But that's just a symptom of the dark age of homogenization where everyone is a DPS where the only thing that matters is high damage all the time.

4) So it ends up just being play the Flavor of the Month Tank.

1) Except that is not how it should be. Every tank should be viable at every level, this applies to all jobs across all roles.

2) They are defensive first damage later. All tanks have the defensive side covered, so it is down to the damage to determine whether you want to take a tank or not. Weirdly enough, the best the tanks have been is in ShB, where the tanks done similar damage to each other.

3) There needs to be some level of homogenization. Every tank needs the defensive kit to do an encounter. If they don't, they won't be used, which goes against the whole 'every job can clear every content'.

4) At the moment, only because of the damage difference, which is probably a non issue now with better gear, however, as mentioned, ShB was the best state the tanks have been in.