Ideas For a Paladin Rework

[Paladin4209]

A more apt comparison would be that atonement becomes more like Hissatsu Shinten; a spamable oGCD ability that consumes gauge to use. Making atonement an oGCD gauge ability is more of a suggestion to increase PLDs apm during its burst phase and not because I want “atonement spam” or to just copy GNB, and it’s somewhat disingenuous to suggest that. Im not married to the idea of atonement being an oGCD gauge ability, it’s more the Req being 4 stacks and FoF being a raid buff that I think would be the best changes. I just think atonement as it is, an ability you get three stacks of and have to use within 30s or you lose them, is somewhat restrictive as a design. Having it be an oGCD gauge ability not only allows for the PLD to have more flexibility in when to use the ability, but also gives it more burst potential. Would you feel it less similar to GNB if I suggested have a 0-100 gauge and it cost 50 gauge? Or if the stacks functioned exactly the same but it was an oGCD instead?

[MagiusNecros]

So instead of being on a duration...why not just hold your stacks? GNB can do it.

I hope you know that 2 minute raid buff and decreasing Req effectiveness is also restrictive design, and isn't very engaging. And no one likes Shinten. At all.

But that's the problem. Overreliance on raid buffs and rDPS.

And if you want to make PLD a rDPS Tank then it's damage in relation to the other Tanks will always be low.

But then again maybe you have the dev perspective where everything in PvE is a fixed rotation, super rigid and plays with no brain restrictive kits with no room for optimization.

I for one dislike raid buffs under a burst window because there isn't much to improve on other then hit all your buttons before going back into your 1-2-3-sometimes 4 for 2 minutes again. Sounds pretty boring to me.

[Paladin4209]

It’s no less restrictive than being on a 1 min cooldown; you’d still have to press it on cooldown. And yeah, of course a tank with a raid buff should have lower damage, I didn’t suggest otherwise. There is no world where a job that has a raid buff should do more damage than a job without a raid buff. My goal is not to make PLD meta. My goal is to better adjust it to the 2 min burst design, and these are merely suggestions.

Also GNB can hold its stacks yes… and a gauge is just a visual representation of that? So far it seems to me the only issue you have is that I suggested a similar gauge to gunbreaker as a representation of atonement stacks. Would you have said the same if I said it should cost 50 gauge? Because at that point it seems to me you don’t like the optics of the design of a gauge like GNB (being that it holds 3 charges) rather than it actually being a bad idea.

Also I understand not everyone likes the 2 min design philosophy. I’m not trying to say that this is the most fun PLD design because fun is subjective, so it’s not that helpful here. I’m simply trying to offer a PLD rework that better fits with Endwalker’s design philosophy while changing the core rotation as little as possible. The only things my suggestion changes is that each triple atonement is replaced with a Royal Authority combo, FoF is a raid buff, and that atonement becomes an oGCD. Beyond that it’s basically the same. The drop in Req stacks is just because you have to drop a GCD in the rotation anyway, so the design should account for this. You can just adjust potencies to compensate

[MagiusNecros]

And that's fine. I will just oppose the 2 minute meta. Because it makes the combat worse. This is even reflected in current encounters where big mechanics and boss jumps happen at the 2 minute interval.

Like one dev thought the 2 minute burst was great and another dev thinks it isn't and goes out of their way to make it garbage in the combat encounters.

[Zarkovitch]

PLD should get buff on the defense side such Holy Sheltron should block bleed or sentinel old mitigation of 40% back and gain old cover back due now all tank classes are somewhat busted nowdays.Seriously, pld feels like in defense side like we are going to hw pld turf which is bad. As for 1/2 mins burst windows, I'm ok with it but the real question is, are they going be busted as ninja with the burst or weak as smn rework. With the "Changes" they did on this expansion for jobs im expecting pld to be busted af due to ninja "Changes".

[Khan_Sado]

I want to keep the dot and magic aspect from PLD but making it strong in a 1min window (to be able to do something on the buff window), and reavaluate some 'dead' skills.

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Overall rotation:


>Opener starting with a 1,2,3,4 combo opening with a early Req:
Dot combo, but Halone is back just to make a 4 skill combo for better timings I guess, Goring dot should last around 30s~.
Req now give you 4 Holy Stacks and 1 Confetior stack.
You can use Confiteor after your holy spirits or before, doesn't matter, just fit it in your party buffs, Confiteor becames your magic Blades combo like it does now but Holy Spirit should be used before(before magic blades combo) cause of stronger potency. Blade of Valor DOESN'T have a dot anymore (Goring dot still going on)
OGCDs used on CD, trying to fit them in party buffs.

>Reapplying Dot and Melee phase:
Dot combo again to reapply Goring Dot.
Now back to the RA combo finisher, but now is a 1,2,3,4 combo, like goring, and gives you a Atone stack (yes 1), BUT instead of the same animation 4x, its like the magic blade combo, you press the same button but its a combo, and I would like more shield action on the animation for this Atone combo.

>reopener and repeat to stay on the same 1 minute loop.

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Mitigation, support and others

>Sheltron and Holy Sheltron gives a Magic Block instead of Block
Magic Block allow PLD to block while stunned or incapacitated, and allow you to block DoTs.

>Cover is a 180s CD without gauge cost and has Magic Block
This make Cover way more useful but not overpower.

>HG is a 360s CD
Same as bolide.

>Healing from Holy Spirits nerfed, but new Attone combo has healing (same amount as nerfed Holy Spirit)
This make the healing more spread during a encounter.

>Passage of Arms has a circular snapshot for +15% mitigation (for 5s) and works for you too
You can use Passage the same as before, but now it's better to use moving and you don't need perfect position to work. And on an emergency you could use Passage as a +15% mit for yourself (but shouldn't be needed).

>Divine veil don't need healing to pop and gives a HoT instead of a insta Heal
You should get both the shield and HoT, this should be perfect for raid wide aoe with DoT

>Clemency is now a 90s OGCD heal
Make it a bit stronger than its now to be worth of 90s, great to use on a buster (MTing, OTing, but really great for shared busters and DoTs!), great to use on a emergency heal to save someone. Can help solve the problem with PLD having less self mits too.

>Shield bash removed or 100% Reworked, can be a 30s/60s OGCD to help on the burst maybe.

[SargeTheSeagull]

theorycrafting stuff.

If the rework is something like that I could live with it. Unfortunately I suspect they're just going to make it warrior #3.

[Wingale]

Make Clemency as AoE healing skill

[Keichi]

Paladin should be the class with the highest defence and ability to protect others (mean the ultimate tank, followed by dark knight with his big armor). Not a high dmg dealer.

The things i would like to have changed are:
- let his animations look faster. Maybe with some fancy movement. He is a little lame to watch.
- make this skill, with that you start your spell phase, be ranged. I want to use it each time on distance. And notice than, that this skill is meele (while all the spells are ranged).

[Undeadfire]

Paladin should be the class with the highest defence and ability to protect others (mean the ultimate tank, followed by dark knight with his big armor). Not a high dmg dealer.

Simple words, wouldn't work current game state. Paladin would become a meme tank overall and never taken in Savage/Ultimate. Having higher def than others doesn't make a bit of difference with player skill, the higher DPS jobs will always take their place. DPS has always been a dominant force in 14, including majority of RPGs.

Players don't want to spend longer time just to play a safe game, when putting effort is a higher reward and safer than making the fights longer.