Ideas For a Paladin Rework

[Paladin4209]

I’ve been playing PLD since I first started the game and when in a recent post it was announced that changes may be made to the job due to it not fitting in with the 2 minute buff window, I figured I would put my own thoughts forward on how the job could be changed.

I think a big change that could be made to help PLD is to make Fight or Flight (FoF) a raid buff, instead of a personal buff for the paladin, that buffs all party damage by 3-5% for 20 seconds. Paladin is the tank with the most party mitigation and support tools and I think giving it a raid buff would further solidify PLDs job identity as the “utility tank” while also increasing viability in raids.

Another change I would make would be to reduce Requiescat from 5 stacks to 4. One of the main issues with paladin is that because Holy Spirit, Confiteor, and the new Blade combo are spells, PLD does not align properly with the 2 minute cycle unless you drop a GCD (usually atonement) from your rotation. This small change would help Significantly with that problem.

The finally change I would make would be to change atonement from a GCD ability to an oGCD. One of the reasons PLD does less damage than DRK and GNB during raid buffs is simply because they have fewer actions available compared to those two tanks. Making Atonement an oGCD would allow PLD to use more skills during a burst window to help with its DPS.

The way I would suggest implementing atonement as an oGCD is the creation of a “Sword Oath” gauge, that could hold up to 3 charges, similar to GNB. Then have actions like Royal Authority, Confiteor, Blade of Faith, Blade of Truth, and Blade of Valour each grant 1 charge toward the sword oath gauge.

Obviously, these changes would have to come with potency adjustments and probably changes to the DoT duration of Goring Blade and/or Blade of Valour, but I think these are the best changes that could be made to better fit PLD into the 2 minute burst window.

[Mithron]

What would be better than trying to force PLD into the 2 minute burst window is nuke 2 minute burst window and make every job more individual focused again.

[MagiusNecros]

2 minute burst meta needs to die. Making every job play the same is not the way. All I'm seeing here is discount Gunbreaker. Turning FoF into a raid buff and Req into a 2 minute CD with all of their stacks and Holy Blade spells auto direct critting would be some funny crap.

I wager some people like Paladin because it doesn't care about the 2 minute burst.

[Paladin4209]

I do understand that not everyone enjoys the 2 minute window, but not fitting into that meta is the reason PLD is lagging behind right now. If they are going to rework it anyway, I’m merely suggesting a way that it could be done.

[Paladin4209]

I fail to see how my suggestion is a discount GNB. I’m merely suggesting implementing a similar style of gauge for atonement while keeping the rest relatively the same. I do think I should have made it more clear that FoF should be 2 minutes and Req should be 1 since FoF is the raid buff in this scenario. I do like current PLD, but when you consider that sometimes my optimal rotation is to FoF 18 seconds before pull and I have to drop a GCD from my rotation to stay in raid buffs there is some awkwardness here that needs to be addressed and I think my suggestions do that.

[MagiusNecros]

Because Atonement becomes a Glorified Burst Strike+Hypervelocity with your Atonement gauge. Reworking PLD IMO means changing it entirely not fitting it into a 2 minute 15 second burst window with FoF. If they are going to make a small change like that they may as well roll it out in 6.25.

Seems like you just want Atonement spam as a playstyle.

[Paladin4209]

A more apt comparison would be that atonement becomes more like Hissatsu Shinten; a spamable oGCD ability that consumes gauge to use. Making atonement an oGCD gauge ability is more of a suggestion to increase PLDs apm during its burst phase and not because I want “atonement spam” or to just copy GNB, and it’s somewhat disingenuous to suggest that. Im not married to the idea of atonement being an oGCD gauge ability, it’s more the Req being 4 stacks and FoF being a raid buff that I think would be the best changes. I just think atonement as it is, an ability you get three stacks of and have to use within 30s or you lose them, is somewhat restrictive as a design. Having it be an oGCD gauge ability not only allows for the PLD to have more flexibility in when to use the ability, but also gives it more burst potential. Would you feel it less similar to GNB if I suggested have a 0-100 gauge and it cost 50 gauge? Or if the stacks functioned exactly the same but it was an oGCD instead?

[MagiusNecros]

So instead of being on a duration...why not just hold your stacks? GNB can do it.

I hope you know that 2 minute raid buff and decreasing Req effectiveness is also restrictive design, and isn't very engaging. And no one likes Shinten. At all.

But that's the problem. Overreliance on raid buffs and rDPS.

And if you want to make PLD a rDPS Tank then it's damage in relation to the other Tanks will always be low.

But then again maybe you have the dev perspective where everything in PvE is a fixed rotation, super rigid and plays with no brain restrictive kits with no room for optimization.

I for one dislike raid buffs under a burst window because there isn't much to improve on other then hit all your buttons before going back into your 1-2-3-sometimes 4 for 2 minutes again. Sounds pretty boring to me.

[Paladin4209]

It’s no less restrictive than being on a 1 min cooldown; you’d still have to press it on cooldown. And yeah, of course a tank with a raid buff should have lower damage, I didn’t suggest otherwise. There is no world where a job that has a raid buff should do more damage than a job without a raid buff. My goal is not to make PLD meta. My goal is to better adjust it to the 2 min burst design, and these are merely suggestions.

Also GNB can hold its stacks yes… and a gauge is just a visual representation of that? So far it seems to me the only issue you have is that I suggested a similar gauge to gunbreaker as a representation of atonement stacks. Would you have said the same if I said it should cost 50 gauge? Because at that point it seems to me you don’t like the optics of the design of a gauge like GNB (being that it holds 3 charges) rather than it actually being a bad idea.

Also I understand not everyone likes the 2 min design philosophy. I’m not trying to say that this is the most fun PLD design because fun is subjective, so it’s not that helpful here. I’m simply trying to offer a PLD rework that better fits with Endwalker’s design philosophy while changing the core rotation as little as possible. The only things my suggestion changes is that each triple atonement is replaced with a Royal Authority combo, FoF is a raid buff, and that atonement becomes an oGCD. Beyond that it’s basically the same. The drop in Req stacks is just because you have to drop a GCD in the rotation anyway, so the design should account for this. You can just adjust potencies to compensate

[MagiusNecros]

And that's fine. I will just oppose the 2 minute meta. Because it makes the combat worse. This is even reflected in current encounters where big mechanics and boss jumps happen at the 2 minute interval.

Like one dev thought the 2 minute burst was great and another dev thinks it isn't and goes out of their way to make it garbage in the combat encounters.