Proposed changes for underperforming jobs

[FireMage]

BLM doing 1% more DPS will make it better DPS. 1% is not the same. People will play for 1% better DPS. I don't really see how it's hard to understand or accept.

And this folks is why I'm correct. There MUST be a gap or harder Jobs are punished. Which is why ~5% is correct, not this 1% garbage

[SaberMaxwell]

Also wait, regarding that "will save healer gcds" bit... (following is assuming raise was meant):

First, *may* save healer gcds since nobody is guaranteed to die, second the dps' gcds are still more valuable. The third death within a single minute is the only raise RDM or SMN should grab outside of extremely niche and extenuating circumstances.

Second, ironically Red Mage due to having no personal mit is the caster that most needs babysitting from healers, especially with mechanics like Dominion and Stomp in 8s or the many, many physical raidwides in dsr. Potential cost in healer GCDs, certainly healer resources.

[FireMage]

Because it does more damage than SMN/RDM and no one should be dying in the first place? 1% is not insignificant.

It very much is

[SaberMaxwell]

This actually sounds like a good Idea lmao. I know people would complain but this would actually be really cool, I think DPS would generally need more ranged classes to fill the gap and pure caster dps

How would the support theoretically pair against roles such as tank? I'm guessing it would be pretty far infront of tanks and would also bring a "%" buff for having 2 to prevent 3 DPS 1 support for % buff meta.

I could draw up some theoreticals later today but I lack a lot of data to write definitives, especially knowing that SE is not likely to listen to them lol. Thank you for the kind words though

What I will say is, looking at the current dps spread, we're basically there in all but name already. 7.0 will probably add a new caster and split the role into damage caster and raise caster, so there's also that.

[Rithy255]

I could draw up some theoreticals later today but I lack a lot of data to write definitives, especially knowing that SE is not likely to listen to them lol. Thank you for the kind words though

What I will say is, looking at the current dps spread, we're basically there in all but name already. 7.0 will probably add a new caster and split the role into damage caster and raise caster, so there's also that.

Well yeah typing on the forums is like yelling at a wall, but it's always nice to come up with ideas that would make the game more fun/better.
I just really think your idea is the best of both worlds, where we can have more support oriented jobs which (still would kinda be dps, obviously they would need to be behind to function) but also have a strong support focus.

Edit:
I'll also add that as it's 7.0 I hope we get drastic changes such as Storm blood to Shadowbringers, so theoretically it isn't out of the realm of possibilities, SHB > Ew really just felt like the only real change was making jobs more bursty.

[Mithron]

Yeah, and I'm totally fine with personal utility on BLM, though I do still kinda' feel like it takes away from their "glass cannon" identity outside Manaward, but hey I'm not against it. I don't think that has to remain their identity, so long as they retain their "I'm top DPS, I hardcast a lot and rarely move" identity. I know with Triplecast having 2 charges and 60s cooldown they actually have more mobility than RDM in many situations now, which I do think is kinda' a problem and against their identity. I don't think giving RDM more mobility is the answer either, because honest immobile hardcasters is a cool, unique, and fun playstyle (IMO) that this game needs and who better than BLM for it?

Much to Firemage's delight, I think most people didn't complain about SMN's high damage in SHB because they were very difficult to play and kinda' overlooked the job balance issues it caused. The difference in quality of SMNs greatly impacted their DPS, but I was never happy about it because I feel like it should be BLM top DPS as their core identity, while SMN should provide raid damage buffs instead and thus be lower.

[Dogempire]

Yeah, and I'm totally fine with personal utility on BLM, though I do still kinda' feel like it takes away from their "glass cannon" identity outside Manaward, but hey I'm not against it. I don't think that has to remain their identity, so long as they retain their "I'm top DPS, I hardcast a lot and rarely move" identity. I know with Triplecast having 2 charges and 60s cooldown they actually have more mobility than RDM in many situations now, which I do think is kinda' a problem and against their identity. I don't think giving RDM more mobility is the answer either, because honest immobile hardcasters is a cool, unique, and fun playstyle (IMO) that this game needs and who better than BLM for it?

Much to Firemage's delight, I think most people didn't complain about SMN's high damage in SHB because they were very difficult to play and kinda' overlooked the job balance issues it caused. The difference in quality of SMNs greatly impacted their DPS, but I was never happy about it because I feel like it should be BLM top DPS as their core identity, while SMN should provide raid damage buffs instead and thus be lower.

I don't really think BLM being a glass cannon is part of their identity, if anything they're more considered more a turret job so giving them more tools to avoid being mobile makes sense, not that it would do much good in savage because that damage down is gonna eat through way more than 1 GCD worth of damage, but hey, more defensive tools to make up for the fact that they don't have a self-heal makes sense.

Especially since RDM has vercure and SMN has 2 stacks of a 30(?) percent shield that they can use plus phoenix has built-in healing.

[remiff]

Personally I loved the 5.0 summoner, when the egi assault are ogcd the only problem is that the balance of the first tier of eden was catastrophic
huge DPS difference between SMN/RDM and Melee DPS/Black mage similar to current 6.2 gap, then square enix made a small rework which gave it a deal mobility and 11% more damage, it was way too much.

The summoner and the red mage should never have the DPS of a black mage, but the gap with the melee DPS should be reduced even if they adjust the BLM slightly as well.

[PorxiesRCute]

Give MCH a raise. Call it Defibrillator. Standard 8s casting time, or instant under Reassemble. There, I fixed the game.

[Aikaal]

In term of caster tax. I do agree. For as long raise is a thing, SMN & RDM should be taxed. I'd argue they should be 3% behind the BLM. At the end of the day, raise is really useful in prog and people are already favoring RDM&SMN over BLM for raise with the current DPS difference anyways.

I would say that if BLM was to be only 1% ahead of SMN&RDM then Res needs to be gone / becomes a role action. In proper and ideal scenario, a DPS with party buffs only scales higher as the expansion goes. It makes sense for a selfish DPS to be further ahead on the first tier.

What I dread is a 4th caster that will be a "pure" caster with no res and similar DPS to BLM and then they'll get a "res" caster 8% behind the pure caster DPS. That would effectively kill RDM forever. Main casters would prog first 3 fights on RDM, go on SMN on the 4th fight and when reclears happens goes BLM/4th caster leaving pure Casters the main attraction for 14 weeks per raid tier.