Proposed changes for underperforming jobs

[remiff]

-They have to adjust the whole caster roles.

-They also need to make adjustments to the role of ranged DPS.

-The reaper needs a slight adjustment to be close to the dragoon-ninja. (the monk needs a very slight nerf)


-But don't expect anything before 6.3.

[Aikaal]

Caster's identity needs a revamp.

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he feels raise has high value in prog. He is right. He is saying RDM would always be behind both SMN and BLM because it's high raise on demand and raise support isn't to save a run and clear. It's to help see further mechanics and practice to get a clear faster. He is also right about it. For Red Mage to do more DPS and be on par with Summoner, they'd need to take down Raise and leave it as a role action for all caster DPS with some sort of CD. That would work but it would require an overhaul of the caster balance. RDM and SMN would need to deal comparative DPS to BLM.

So I don't think we'll get much of a DPS increase from RDM. If they do get a buff. So will SMN. If they buff BLM because Yoshidad's job is behind melees. They should buff other casters. But that won't solve the problem itself. Unfortunately I do not believe we'll see any major change for caster until 7.0.

That isn't a super major spoiler but seeing how MSQ is going, there's a very high change that Krile will be having a new job and it would be a caster DPS. I can't see them giving her a 5th healer job after SAG just came out. With a 4th Caster role, they will have to rework casters.

Take it with a grain of salt because it's pure speculations here but they could split casters like they did with healers. Pure DPS Casters with higher damage and Raise casters. I do not believe this is the right choice. That would kill identity imho and with only 8 spots to fill and with 19 jobs to raid with, you'll have "bad" jobs like Machinist.

I personally feel Raise needs to be gone from SMN and RDM kit and a role action is created for them. Like Tactician needs to be a role action. I expect casters to be more and more mobile which will suck for RDM because RDM is about dualcast. But I 100% know the 4th caster job will be about SMN brain power judging from how RPR and SAG are easy to play.

[Seraphor]

Caster's identity needs a revamp.

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he feels raise has high value in prog. He is right. He is saying RDM would always be behind both SMN and BLM because it's high raise on demand and raise support isn't to save a run and clear. It's to help see further mechanics and practice to get a clear faster. He is also right about it. For Red Mage to do more DPS and be on par with Summoner, they'd need to take down Raise and leave it as a role action for all caster DPS with some sort of CD. That would work but it would require an overhaul of the caster balance. RDM and SMN would need to deal comparative DPS to BLM.

So I don't think we'll get much of a DPS increase from RDM. If they do get a buff. So will SMN. If they buff BLM because Yoshidad's job is behind melees. They should buff other casters. But that won't solve the problem itself. Unfortunately I do not believe we'll see any major change for caster until 7.0.

That isn't a super major spoiler but seeing how MSQ is going, there's a very high change that Krile will be having a new job and it would be a caster DPS. I can't see them giving her a 5th healer job after SAG just came out. With a 4th Caster role, they will have to rework casters.

Take it with a grain of salt because it's pure speculations here but they could split casters like they did with healers. Pure DPS Casters with higher damage and Raise casters. I do not believe this is the right choice. That would kill identity imho and with only 8 spots to fill and with 19 jobs to raid with, you'll have "bad" jobs like Machinist.

I personally feel Raise needs to be gone from SMN and RDM kit and a role action is created for them. Like Tactician needs to be a role action. I expect casters to be more and more mobile which will suck for RDM because RDM is about dualcast. But I 100% know the 4th caster job will be about SMN brain power judging from how RPR and SAG are easy to play.

Been saying for years that all RDM Raise needs is is a change to how Dualcast works.

Instead of Dualcast making the next spell an instant cast, it should simply reduce the cast of the next spell by 5 seconds.
This would mean all of it's other spells would effectively be instant casts, except Verraise, which would be 5 seconds.

A 5 second cast is still reasonable, but it's not brokenly accessible that it makes RDM a de facto raise bot, and results in a built in DPS nerf for it's use, as you're losing two GCDs instead of one, allowing for their base potencies to be increased in exchange.

Want to instantly raise someone? You need to use Swiftcast just like SMN.

[Kalaam]

I don't really see how that's an useful change at all.

[SaberMaxwell]

In a tier like this though, with as many 8 man checks as there are, raise isn't even useful to see or practice new mechanics really. Either there's a single death, which the healer can handle, or the run is basically a wipe anyway. Besides which, its a use specific to blind prog, since non blind proggers will know what mechanic is coming anyway.

[Keichi]

Been saying for years that all RDM Raise needs is is a change to how Dualcast works.

Instead of Dualcast making the next spell an instant cast, it should simply reduce the cast of the next spell by 5 seconds.
This would mean all of it's other spells would effectively be instant casts, except Verraise, which would be 5 seconds.

A 5 second cast is still reasonable, but it's not brokenly accessible that it makes RDM a de facto raise bot, and results in a built in DPS nerf for it's use, as you're losing two GCDs instead of one, allowing for their base potencies to be increased in exchange.

Want to instantly raise someone? You need to use Swiftcast just like SMN.

Where is the advangte and useness for the group with it?
The instant raise IS the main point of the red mage and one of the most important parts of him.
Taking it away is taking away half of his face.
He is nothing, as a weaker - but faster - Blm, without his fast raise skill. Dmg is not all, what is important.
The only thing, the red mage is missing, are more methodes to increase his mp pool again. So, that he can use multiple raises and has than mp left for attacks.

His fast ressing is esspecial usefull, when the healers or tanks are going down. Or, multiple people. Healer can at max only ress 2 people very fast. After that, they need time (and has to heal by the way). Red mage is a good support for the healer, who can concentrait on ress and healer on heal (they are even the first DD, who are ressed).

[SaberMaxwell]

On phone can't edit but @Sera: RDM already super prefers swift raise anyway xD without swift, the action of raising takes a round of 2 gcds, 5 seconds. Its shorter than ghe typical 7.5s hardcast raise and more flexible from the 2s actual casting, but its never going to outpace the good old swift raise even today.

[Seraphor]

Where is the advangte and useness for the group with it?
The instant raise IS the main point of the red mage and one of the most important parts of him.
Taking it away is taking away half of his face.
He is nothing, as a weaker - but faster - Blm, without his fast raise skill. Dmg is not all, what is important.
The only thing, the red mage is missing, are more methodes to increase his mp pool again. So, that he can use multiple raises and has than mp left for attacks.

His fast ressing is esspecial usefull, when the healers or tanks are going down. Or, multiple people. Healer can at max only ress 2 people very fast. After that, they need time (and has to heal by the way). Red mage is a good support for the healer, who can concentrait on ress and healer on heal (they are even the first DD, who are ressed).

I wish people wouldn't ignore the context of a comment.

In the response to someone suggesting that raise should be removed from all casters or made a caster role skill on a cooldown specifically because of RDM's raise tax causing it to deal less damage.
I've suggested a middle ground that makes RDM intentionally less useful as a raise bot, but not as restricted as SMN, allowing it's "raise tax" to be eased off and result in a higher overall damage output.

[Aikaal]

Chain raise won't do any good for p8s, you're almost guaranteed a wipe. One death can be managed to see further progression and SMN can provide that should you keep Swiftcast.

[SaberMaxwell]

Where is the advangte and useness for the group with it?
The instant raise IS the main point of the red mage and one of the most important parts of him.
Taking it away is taking away half of his face.

Really now. Really. One ability is "half of Red Mage." I honestly don't know whether to take you seriously or not, you have some of the wildest and least educated opinions I've seen on the official forums, and this isn't even the worst I've seen from you but seriously? A DPS's main identity is healing? And yes, a raise is a heal.

He is nothing, as a weaker - but faster - Blm, without his fast raise skill. Dmg is not all, what is important.

In FFXIV, damage is practically all.

The only thing, the red mage is missing, are more methodes to increase his mp pool again. So, that he can use multiple raises and has than mp left for attacks.

Lucid Dreaming is enough for a Red Mage's purposes, they already run an MP positive rotation unless you really are chain raising in which case...go play healer, it's clearly what you want, and let Red Mage be a DPS.

His fast ressing is esspecial usefull, when the healers or tanks are going down.

When both healers die is Red Mage's actual only unique niche when it comes to raise, and only when the Red Mage has swiftcast up still. That being the ability to get both up in the span of 7.5 seconds. If anyone else dies, including tanks, healers have priority on raise because of opportunity cost.

Or, multiple people. Healer can at max only ress 2 people very fast. After that, they need time (and has to heal by the way). Red mage is a good support for the healer, who can concentrait on ress and healer on heal (they are even the first DD, who are ressed).

They're not a damage-dealer in your fantasy here. You said it yourself, they're healer-support. This game hardly has room for two healers let alone two healers and healer-support. Your ideas are okay in a vacuum but it seriously feels like you don't actually play this game sometimes based on the stuff you say. "Melees need to do more because they might be forced out of range" is another such take where, in a vacuum sure but the way FFXIV plays that's not the case at all.