SMN: Total potencies on the legos

[Mithron]

Titan:

Summon Titan II: 700
Topaz Rite: 330 x 4 = 1320
Mountain Buster: 150 x 4 = 600

Total: 2620

Ifrit

Summon Ifrit II: 700
Ruby Rite: 510 x 2 = 1020
Crimson Cyclone = 430
Crimson Strike = 430

Total: 2580

Garuda

Summon Garuda II: 700
Emerald Rite: 240 x 4 = 920
Slipstream: 430 + (30 x 15) = 880

Total: 2500

So Titan first to get everything under as many raid buffs as possible is optimal, but you have the argument of using Swiftcast on Slip Stream vs. a Ruby Rite. Slip Stream has a longer cast time, but even if you land every single tick of it, it would still be a net potency loss vs. not landing both Ruby Rites during Ifrit.

This has changed how I play SMN and forces me to look at each fight more carefully to plan my lego rotation and Swiftcast. What do you think?

[Supersnow845]

Optimal play is to snapshot slipstream in the last few seconds of searing light by swift casting it after jamming all of Bahamut and titan under searing light, this is always better than swiftcasting one of ifrit’s ruby rights unless the boss will dissappear before slipstream ends

Other buffs don’t apply to titan or slipstream because you should be in Bahamut for most of the burst phase of other shorter buffs like techno cal step, divination or chain

[Aco505]

Slipstream: 430 + (30 x 15) = 880

Slipstream's potency is 610.

430 on hit, and then five ticks of 30. Most DoT or ticking damage in this game happens every three seconds. There's an additional 30 damage that comes from the fact that the attack is a persistent ground AoE, these also deal their tick damage instantly when applied (Salted Earth is the same).

Also depending on SpS you can hit not only the Summon and the Slipstream, but also an Emerald Rite. That's why Garuda is used 2nd (or 1st with a lot of 15s buffs) at high levels during burst windows.

[remiff]

Titan:

Summon Titan II: 700
Topaz Rite: 330 x 4 = 1320
Mountain Buster: 150 x 4 = 600

Total: 2620

Ifrit

Summon Ifrit II: 700
Ruby Rite: 510 x 2 = 1020
Crimson Cyclone = 430
Crimson Strike = 430

Total: 2580

Garuda

Summon Garuda II: 700
Emerald Rite: 240 x 4 = 920
Slipstream: 430 + (30 x 15) = 880

Total: 2500

So Titan first to get everything under as many raid buffs as possible is optimal, but you have the argument of using Swiftcast on Slip Stream vs. a Ruby Rite. Slip Stream has a longer cast time, but even if you land every single tick of it, it would still be a net potency loss vs. not landing both Ruby Rites during Ifrit.

This has changed how I play SMN and forces me to look at each fight more carefully to plan my lego rotation and Swiftcast. What do you think?

Garuda potency is 700 '' pet potency tax on this spell''
+ 4x230 Emerland rites
+430 dot (6x30) Slipstream

Total potency: 2210.

but the real potency is slightly lower because inferno,Aerial blast,Earthen Fury,Ahk morn,Revelation still have ''pet tax''.

[Mithron]

Thanks for explaining how Slipstream dot potency works. Even if it's lower than I anticipated, it still remains the single strongest button out of the three legos, so I can see how it would be optimal during raid buffs.

However, if you're like me and 100% solo PF everything, you can't really rely on any buffs outside your own Searing Light, so if you can manage 2-3 Topaz Rites + Mountain Busters during it I think that's still more total potency than Slipstream + Emerald Rite, right?

[Aco505]

However, if you're like me and 100% solo PF everything, you can't really rely on any buffs outside your own Searing Light, so if you can manage 2-3 Topaz Rites + Mountain Busters during it I think that's still more total potency than Slipstream + Emerald Rite, right?

If you're not doing savage and/or you cannot rely on your teammates, then you should do Titan > Garuda and try to make sure that the Slipstream fits inside SL. You can check the Titan opener in the Balance if you wish, it includes the amount of GCDs that are covered by your buff.

[MagiusNecros]

I think I'm just gonna be bad and skip discount Fire 4, use Swiftstream and make my SMN stack Spell Speed and focus on being a melee caster. Hitting my booksmack autos ironically should mitigate the loss of potency loss from Ruby Rite. I'd only consider Ruby Rite if I have to be ranged and have to do mechanics.

I think testing is required on what does more damage? Going through the motions in your phases or stacking SPS and embracing the Meleecaster life where everything is instant.

[remiff]

Thanks for explaining how Slipstream dot potency works. Even if it's lower than I anticipated, it still remains the single strongest button out of the three legos, so I can see how it would be optimal during raid buffs.

However, if you're like me and 100% solo PF everything, you can't really rely on any buffs outside your own Searing Light, so if you can manage 2-3 Topaz Rites + Mountain Busters during it I think that's still more total potency than Slipstream + Emerald Rite, right?

you have to use your Searing light after bahamut's first gcd, and you normally have enough time left to do full titan filler first, and use slipstream very quickly with swiftcast before the buff end, garuda is stronger when he stay a few seconds of Searing light, or in some rare situation where the boss can take damage but that we can no longer DPS.

Otherwise you should always use titan.

Besides, I hope that square enix will increase the damage of ifrit and garuda, because the fact that titan is the most mobile and the most powerful of the 3 makes no sense.

[Rongway]

So Titan first to get everything under as many raid buffs as possible is optimal, but you have the argument of using Swiftcast on Slip Stream vs. a Ruby Rite. Slip Stream has a longer cast time, but even if you land every single tick of it, it would still be a net potency loss vs. not landing both Ruby Rites during Ifrit.

You need to take the cast/recast times into account. The P/s gained by Swiftcast on a single spell basis is 68 P/s if you use it on Ruby Rite ((510 P / 2.5s - 510 P / 3.0s) / (3.0s - 2.5s) = 68 P/s) and about 70 if you use it on Slipstream ((610 P / 2.5s - 610 P / 3.5s) / (3.5s - 2.5s) ≈ 69.7). If you're interested in how that affects the various summon microrotations it looks like this:

                         Potency      Cast
                         Potency      Cast
Titan
Summon Titan II           700          2.5s
Topaz Rite                330          2.5s
Mountain Buster           150          0.0s
Topaz Rite                330          2.5s
Mountain Buster           150          0.0s
Topaz Rite                330          2.5s
Mountain Buster           150          0.0s
Topaz Rite                330          2.5s
Mountain Buster           150          0.0s

Total:                   2620         12.5s
P/s: 209.6



Ifrit
Summon Ifrit II           700          2.5s       
Ruby Rite                 510          3.0s       
Ruby Rite                 510          3.0s
Crimson Cyclone           430          2.5s
Crimson Strike            430          2.5s

Total:                   2580         13.5s
P/s: 191

Total with Swiftcast:    2580         13.0s
P/s with Swiftcast: 198
Ifrit phase Swiftcast gain: 7 P/s



Garuda
Summon Garuda II          700          2.5s
Emerald Rite              230          1.5s
Emerald Rite              230          1.5s
Emerald Rite              230          1.5s
Emerald Rite              230          1.5s
Slipstream                610          3.5s

Total:                   2230         12.0s
P/s: 186

Total with Swiftcast:    2230         11.0s
P/s with Swiftcast: 203
Garuda phase Swiftcast gain: 17 P/s

[Aikaal]

Titan:

Summon Titan II: 700
Topaz Rite: 330 x 4 = 1320
Mountain Buster: 150 x 4 = 600

Total: 2620

Ifrit

Summon Ifrit II: 700
Ruby Rite: 510 x 2 = 1020
Crimson Cyclone = 430
Crimson Strike = 430

Total: 2580

Garuda

Summon Garuda II: 700
Emerald Rite: 240 x 4 = 920
Slipstream: 430 + (30 x 15) = 880

Total: 2500

So Titan first to get everything under as many raid buffs as possible is optimal, but you have the argument of using Swiftcast on Slip Stream vs. a Ruby Rite. Slip Stream has a longer cast time, but even if you land every single tick of it, it would still be a net potency loss vs. not landing both Ruby Rites during Ifrit.

This has changed how I play SMN and forces me to look at each fight more carefully to plan my lego rotation and Swiftcast. What do you think?

Hey, there's a major issue with your maths and it's time needed for the amount of potency.

Pet tax aside; PPS stands for Potency per Second. At BiS with perfect latency and able to slip 6 GCDs at 2.48 GCD.

Titan 2620 Potency on 12.4s = 211.3 PPS
Ifrit 2580 Potency on 13s = 198.5 PPS (If you use Swiftcast; 203.15 PPS with 12.7s)
Garuda 2230 Potency on 11.95s = 186.6 PPS

Let's talk about Swiftcast.
Bahamut takes 17.36s. It last 15 seconds and starts on the 2.48 GCD but the 6th GCD kicks in and you're still waiting for the next GCD.
You have a Ruin III and Ruin IV filler: 4.96s

Full rotation is 59.64s.

12.4s+13s+11.95s+4.96s+17.36s = 59.67s.

So you're whole rotation minute is 59.64s and it takes you (without swiftcast) 59.67s. With Swiftcast, it'll take you 59.37s. It is fair to assume you won't be using an extra Ruin III filler unless the fight asks you to delay you're Bahamut/Phoenix 1 GCD

What's wrong with the legos is that Ifrit is so bad compared to Titan. You swiftcast Slipstream when you have 2 15s buffs in the party after Bahamut. Otherwise, you'd only swiftcast for mobility reasons and if you'd swiftcast for Slipstream (for DPS optimization), you have to use it on CD. Ifrit have 2 hardcasts and a melee combo for caveats. Titan GCDs are 480 potency while Bahamut GCDs are 440 potency. Why is it the damn earth potation STRONGER than my avatar of destruction? SE really have no idea how to make sense out of this lol.

To sum it up
Bahamut 307.6 PPS
Phoenix 313.3 PPS
Titan 211.3 PPS
Ifrit 198.5 PPS
Garuda 186.6 PPS
Fillers 149.2 PPS

Do what you like with those numbers, Titan if significantly stronger than it should be. Also, these numbers don,t take into account pet tax and I believe Phoenix/Bahamut DoT hits 6 times like Slipstream so it's 150 potency per hit for 6 times. I could be wrong but if I am, it only means the PPS of Bahamut and Phoenix would drop equally. Also, because Slipstream is a massive hitting 610 potency, if it gets all 15s buffs and buffs. It'll outweight Titan GCDs because 610 > 480.

Buffs that last 15s Chain Stratagem, Brotherhood, Battle Litany, Radiant Finale, Divination/Cards
Buffs that last 20s Mug, Arcane Circle, Embolden, Technical Step
The one special buff that last 30s: Searing Light

Basically, my static has Chain + Litany + Radiant. This means I'm better launching Garuda with Swift instead of Titan since there's multiple 15s buffs in my party.