Current problems with machinist and being constructive.

[Seraphor]

you cant balance that, bard/dancers damage is dependant on other players you cannot account for others players damage against a 100% personal damage class, machinist will always have balancing issues compared to its peers because its a selfish dps, and it will always be excluded from PF because it doesnt bring raid utility, its beyond the dmg buffs that dancer/bard bring to the table Machinist just simply cant offer what the other 2 can beyond raw numbers. dancer can heal and mitigate and give a dps buff, bard dps buffs, can mitigate, and has a healing buff they both also have oh shit buttons for movement. machinist has.... tactcian even if machinist could keep up with there dps why would i bring a machinist over the other 2? i wouldnt.

So why do people bring BLM instead of SMN/RDM who have raid buffs?
Why do people bring SAM instead of othe melee who have raid buffs?

[Jeeqbit]

Machinist is great and I love playing it. It's been really fun since Shadowbringers.

Gauss Round and Ricochet could have their charges increased to 4 so that weaving during Heat Blast isn't a DPS gain and that would solve the ping problems. Heat Blast could alternatively reduce the recast time by 10 seconds instead of 15.

I understand how Wildfire is supposed to be used but it can be difficult to weave Wildfire and Hypercharge together at high pings, especially when every other job has a stack system now. It would be better to have a 15 second duration with a maximum number of Weaponskills that can contribute.

A lot of people are saying it needs a damage increase, so maybe it does, or maybe it doesn't and SE know what they are doing.

[AirlineFood]

So why do people bring BLM instead of SMN/RDM who have raid buffs?
Why do people bring SAM instead of othe melee who have raid buffs?

they literally will bring sum/ rezmage cause of there party utility. you cannot compare buffs from melee /magical to buffs from physical ranged they are nowhere near the same thing. reapers got what a 3% damage buff and a 50 potency regen? who cares. also people used to bring ninja as a meta because of trick attack so they do do that.

[Donoman]

Step 1: Realize MCH is a "selfish" DPS and adjust them accordingly akin to SAM / BLM. They offer next to no group utility. MCH should be near them in DPS.

Step 2: Wildfire is extremely underwhelming for it's long CD and large setup. Needs to guarantee DH/Crit

Step 3: There's no logical reason that Auto Crossbow doesn't shorten the CD of Ricochet. At all. Heat blast lowers the ST equivalent, Auto Crossbow should shorten it's aoe equivalent.

Step 4: Flamethrower is extremely underwhelming for it's long CD.
Ideas for Improvement:
A) Make it a heat spender with a high enough potency to justify itself. You could have one segment to Flamethrower (higher potency), one segment to heat blast (lower potency).
or
B) Make it a burn DoT

Also add that we're a selfish dps without any tools (outside of the base kit that is available to everyone) to even help ourselves. No heal, no disengage, no movement speed increase, no shield, nothing.

[Jeeqbit]

Also add that we're a selfish dps without any tools to even help ourselves. No heal, no disengage, no movement speed increase, no shield, nothing.

Second wind, sheathe, sprint and peloton, tactician.

These things help themselves in the ways you described, but they aren't unique to Machinist, so your argument would be better if it said they don't have anything like repelling shot/en avant, warden's paean, battle voice/devilment, song party buffs, nature's minne, dance partner, curing waltz and improvisation.

It's hard to think of a lore reason why a Machinist would provide that sort of utility, but making Wildfire like Mug is a good idea.

[ForteNightshade]

So why do people bring BLM instead of SMN/RDM who have raid buffs?

Because neither have enough raid buffs for it to make a significant enough difference. At least in ideal circumstances. Reiterating what I said before, Red Mage is actually lagging so far behind that it can't keep up with Black Mage. This is the first raid tier we've had in years where there's more Black Mage clears of P8S than Red Mage. Meanwhile, Summoner plays well into raid buffs enough to remain sort of relevant.

Why do people bring SAM instead of othe melee who have raid buffs?

Samurai is the poster boy for playing into raid buffs to huge benefit. It's synergy with Dancer rivals the Dragoon/Bard love affair of old. The key difference though is despite being extremely effective at utilizing raid buffs, it doesn't overshadow the other melee. In fact, none of the melee contribute much in the way of rDPS relative to their aDPS: i.e., they're all largely selfish. Case in point, let's look at Ninja. In P6S, at the 90%, it's rDPS and aDPS are roughly 100 apart. That's within crit variance range. Now look at Bard and Dancer. Both have well over 1,000 separating each category. Which means a sizeable portion of their entire damage profile is baked into raid buffs. You can't balance a selfish job around that big a margin.

In order for Machinist to even be close, it's aDPS would need to skyrocket. Which, in turn, makes Dancer and Bard worthless. Why play two jobs whose damage relies entirely on other players when you can play Machinist and easily do consistently better damage? It's the Dancer problem now except reversed.

Put simply, even in a bad party, Ninja can still contribute meaningful damage. Bard and Dancer can't.

[Donoman]

Second wind, sheathe, sprint and peloton, tactician.

These things help themselves in the ways you described, but they aren't unique to Machinist, so your argument would be better if it said they don't have anything like repelling shot/en avant, warden's paean, battle voice/devilment, song party buffs, nature's minne, dance partner, curing waltz and improvisation.

It's hard to think of a lore reason why a Machinist would provide that sort of utility, but making Wildfire like Mug is a good idea.

I'm obviously talking about things outside of the base kit that is available to everyone... But sure I'll edit that to specify. I'm also not talking about group utility, I'm talking about something like Mana Ward, En Avant, Aetherial Maniuplation etc... selfish utility that just makes life easier when dealing with mechanics / screw ups.

[Seraphor]

Because neither have enough raid buffs for it to make a significant enough difference. At least ideal circumstances. Reiterating what I said before, Red Mage is actually lagging so far behind that it can't keep up with Black Mage. This is the first raid tier we've had in years where there's more Black Mage clears of P8S than Red Mage. Meanwhile, Summoner plays well into raid buffs enough to remain sort of relevant.



Samurai is the poster boy for playing into raid buffs to huge benefit. It's synergy with Dancer rivals the Dragoon/Bard love affair of old. The key difference though is despite being extremely effective at utilizing raid buffs, it doesn't overshadow the other melee. In fact, none of the melee contribute much in the way of rDPS relative to their aDPS: i.e., they're all largely selfish. Case in point, let's look at Ninja. In P6S, at the 90%, it's rDPS and aDPS are roughly 100 apart. That's within crit variance range. Now look at Bard and Dancer. Both have well over 1,000 separating each category. Which means a sizeable portion of their entire damage profile is baked into raid buffs. You can't balance a selfish job around that big a margin.

In order for Machinist to even be close, it's aDPS would need to skyrocket. Which, in turn, makes Dancer and Bard worthless. Why play two jobs whose damage relies entirely on other players when you can play Machinist and easily do consistently better damage? It's the Dancer problem now except reversed.

Put simply, even in a bad party, Ninja can still contribute meaningful damage. Bard and Dancer can't.

Once again... none of this is a reason against buffing Machinist.
It does not need to be buffed to SAM/BLM levels! It just needs to be able to compete with BRD and DNC.
Buffing Machinist by a couple percent to bring it up to a level where you are not so severely punished for playing MCH will not suddenly invalidate BRD and DNC.
You keep arguing in extremes, there's tons of middle ground.

[Seraphor]

Second wind, sheathe, sprint and peloton, tactician.

These things help themselves in the ways you described, but they aren't unique to Machinist, so your argument would be better if it said they don't have anything like repelling shot/en avant, warden's paean, battle voice/devilment, song party buffs, nature's minne, dance partner, curing waltz and improvisation.

It's hard to think of a lore reason why a Machinist would provide that sort of utility, but making Wildfire like Mug is a good idea.

Peloton doesn't count, it's a role action that only works outside of combat.
Sprint everyone has acces to.
Sheath!?

No, in terms of actual utility MCH only has two role actions, Second Wind and Tactician.

Consider Samurai has Second Wind, Bloodbath, Third Eye, two mobility skills, plus Feint.

While Black Mage has Manaward, two mobility skills and Addle.

MCH should at the very least come with some more personal utility, something like additional personal mitigation or a movement skill akin to En Avant/Repelling Arrow, perhaps a personal Expediation effect, call it 'Overcharge' or something.

[Syln]

Was thinking about a turret mode to deal heavy damage : Change Reassemble to something that make you deploy a big launcher allowing you the use of your abilities + hypercharge, heat blast and Auto crossbow. You can't move but always crit and direct hit while using this mode (duration 10 sec 2 charges 60 sec cooldown can be canceled by jumping).