Current problems with machinist and being constructive.

[AirlineFood]

Hey i just wanted to make a thread for people who play machinist and the current problems they feel machinist has/ possible fixes.

I've been playing machinist since Heavenward which was the last time I remember machinist being good(even if people didnt like the rng nature of it) basically every tier machinist is excluded from party finder it's just accepted at this point and doesnt become a hot topic issue until other jobs get excluded and i get it machinist is a selfish range dps who cant keep up with melee dps at higher levels of play and provides no raid utility. i wouldn't want it in my comp either.

The Problem/Fixes i would like to see as i play machinist is:
1. I'm over the selfish dps job identity our job identity is that we have a gun, give us a raid buff, Wildfire is in a very bad spot just make it work like mug where it applies a debuff to the boss its already on a 120s cooldown per ur 2min burst window agenda.
2.Make one of drill,AA, or CS have a higher potency so I have a reason to prioritize one over the others for my reassemble it would add just a slight bit of complexity to the job instead of being so braindead press buttons. the only time this comes into play is when there are adds so u would reassemble chainsaw to hit multiple enemies with the same potency as drill and AA.
3. the 12s window for queen is fine even with the potency increase but u lose like 6 secs of uptime while its dropping to the ground and being summoned even when summoning it in melee range (because roller dash is a dps loss) just make it summon more instantly or make the battery gauge timer not start til it uses a skill. the summon animation is way too long basically and uses up half of the 12s timer (tbf on the backend pilebunker/crowned collider do go off while the battery gauage is at 0)
4. like i said before wildfire should just be turned into a debuff placed on the boss, but if not that it needs to be more rewarding to use it since it takes so much effort to use but makes up so little of your total damage its pretty pathetic for a 2 min burst window skill.

[Deceptus]

Step 1: Realize MCH is a "selfish" DPS and adjust them accordingly akin to SAM / BLM. They offer next to no group utility. MCH should be near them in DPS.

Step 2: Wildfire is extremely underwhelming for it's long CD and large setup. Needs to guarantee DH/Crit

Step 3: There's no logical reason that Auto Crossbow doesn't shorten the CD of Ricochet. At all. Heat blast lowers the ST equivalent, Auto Crossbow should shorten it's aoe equivalent.

Step 4: Flamethrower is extremely underwhelming for it's long CD.
Ideas for Improvement:
A) Make it a heat spender with a high enough potency to justify itself. You could have one segment to Flamethrower (higher potency), one segment to heat blast (lower potency).
or
B) Make it a burn DoT

[AirlineFood]

not a bad list, so actually machinist used to do more damage than melee dps with basically no downtime (cept casting time) but the problem became people would just take 2 range into fights over melee I personally do not think that machinist dps should come close to touching melee dps to prevent that kinda meta, however if they keep making the bosses hit boxes the side of the arena and melee having virtually no downtime/positionals then I honestly dont see a problem with making machinist as strong as blm/sam it really depends on how the dev team wants to proceed with future tiers if big hitboxes and no postionals is the meta than yes hard agree.

[Syln]

-Wildfire spread to every enemies within 10y of your target deal damage each time you hit a target affected by it with weapon skill + the current final burst

-Flamethrower let you move while channeling and become a weapon skill :3

[Seraphor]

I would give Wildfire a (personal) debuff like Trick Attack, increasing the potencies of Heatblast and Gauss/Ricochet.

Flamethrower I think should be the AoE equivalent of Air Anchor and share a cooldown.
Why am I forced to use a single target huge potency attack in a dungeon pull?
Have Flamethrower generate Battery gauge, maybe after the 5th tick so you don't need to channel for the full 10s.
Better yet, buff the potency for the first 5s from 80 to 100 so those first 5s are worth more too.

[AirlineFood]

I would give Wildfire a (personal) debuff like Trick Attack, increasing the potencies of Heatblast and Gauss/Ricochet.

Flamethrower I think should be the AoE equivalent of Air Anchor and share a cooldown.
Why am I forced to use a single target huge potency attack in a dungeon pull?
Have Flamethrower generate Battery gauge, maybe after the 5th tick so you don't need to channel for the full 10s.
Better yet, buff the potency for the first 5s from 80 to 100 so those first 5s are worth more too.

If they intend to keep it a selfish dps making wildfire like trick attack wouldnt be the worse, but i would also add lower it to a 60s cooldown instead of 120s so it operates even more like trick attack.

[ForteNightshade]

Step 1: Realize MCH is a "selfish" DPS and adjust them accordingly akin to SAM / BLM. They offer next to no group utility. MCH should be near them in DPS.

Momo Sama has a very well written explanation for why they can't do this.

In short, because of how SE has set up the Prange role, buffing Machinist up to Black Mage/Samurai levels instantly kills off any reason to ever touch Dancer or Bard. In an average party setting, Machinist actually does decent, albeit still on the low side. Meanwhile, Bard and Dancer are entirely dependent on their party. In other words, a Machinist doing say, current Black Mage damage, is always 100% better in PF than Bard or Dancer purely due to consistency. Not only do either one of them have to be above 90%. The party itself/Dancer Partner also needs to be good. We're starting to see this unfold with the Caster role right now. Black Mage is, objectively, better than both Red Mage and Summoner. What prevents it from dominating is the general difficulty of playing it well and combat raise.

SE has essentially pigeonholed themselves into a corner ever since they introduced Dancer. At this point, they need to simply scrap the whole "selfish" concept from Prange.

[AirlineFood]

@ForteNightshade I hadnt even considered dancer/bard I always say its a bad idea because obviously if u give machinist damage akin to blm/sam who in small hitbox fights or fights with constant movement machinist would out damage them because of it's basically 100% uptime but this also makes a lot of sense.

[Seraphor]

Momo Sama has a very well written explanation for why they can't do this.

In short, because of how SE has set up the Prange role, buffing Machinist up to Black Mage/Samurai levels instantly kills off any reason to ever touch Dancer or Bard. In an average party setting, Machinist actually does decent, albeit still on the low side. Meanwhile, Bard and Dancer are entirely dependent on their party. In other words, a Machinist doing say, current Black Mage damage, is always 100% better in PF than Bard or Dancer purely due to consistency. Not only do either one of them have to be above 90%. The party itself/Dancer Partner also needs to be good. We're starting to see this unfold with the Caster role right now. Black Mage is, objectively, better than both Red Mage and Summoner. What prevents it from dominating is the general difficulty of playing it well and combat raise.

SE has essentially pigeonholed themselves into a corner ever since they introduced Dancer. At this point, they need to simply scrap the whole "selfish" concept from Prange.

It doesn't need to be the same level as SAM/BLM, it just needs to be higher than it currently is so it can compete with BRD/DNC in a raid context. It can just abput compete ok in 4 man content, it just gets demolished by 8 man spread raid buffs.
It wouldn't hurt to tune it in a way that MCH beats the other two by a small margin in 4 man content so that it would stand a chance in 8 man.

It absolutely should remain a selfsh dps.
We don't have role identities anymore where a certain role is considered the damage dealer or support. Instead each role should have a range of options within it.
Melee have their selfish and their utility jobs, casters have their's, so should physical ranged.

[AirlineFood]

It doesn't need to be the same level as SAM/BLM, it just needs to be higher than it currently is so it can compete with BRD/DNC in a raid context. It can just abput compete ok in 4 man content, it just gets demolished by 8 man spread raid buffs.
It wouldn't hurt to tune it in a way that MCH beats the other two by a small margin in 4 man content so that it would stand a chance in 8 man.

It absolutely should remain a selfsh dps.
We don't have role identities anymore where a certain role is considered the damage dealer or support. Instead each role should have a range of options within it.
Melee have their selfish and their utility jobs, casters have their's, so should physical ranged.

you cant balance that, bard/dancers damage is dependant on other players you cannot account for others players damage against a 100% personal damage class, machinist will always have balancing issues compared to its peers because its a selfish dps, and it will always be excluded from PF because it doesnt bring raid utility, its beyond the dmg buffs that dancer/bard bring to the table Machinist just simply cant offer what the other 2 can beyond raw numbers. dancer can heal and mitigate and give a dps buff, bard dps buffs, can mitigate, and has a healing buff they both also have oh shit buttons for movement. machinist has.... tactcian even if machinist could keep up with there dps why would i bring a machinist over the other 2? i wouldnt.