Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

[Elfidan]

Okay mister I never read the tooltips and came on to the forum to complain about a skill I lack the brain wrinkles not to get smoked by.

Nothing of substance to add. Ignore comments you can't contribute to in favor of insults. Go back to begging for 50% buffs to abilities that already do enough damage or attacking random dragoons while creeping on their lodestone. You're a joke.

I have to agree with Riley here. SAM's LB is anywhere near as OP as people make it out to be, and this is coming from a PvPer whose main Frontline jobs are heavy on AoE (DNC and DRG). If the game forced you to tab through every enemy to figure out what job they were, I would be able to understand where people are coming from. But Frontline gives you enough information you need to stop yourself from making bad plays. Even in a crowd, the blue/yellow/red text that clearly says 'Samurai' is hard to miss.

"I didn't know the SAM was there" or "I shouldn't be expected to sift through the crowd for a single Samurai" are quite frankly unacceptable excuses. The latter is a skill that should be expected of every Frontline player regardless of whether or not SAM LB is in the game. You need to be able to sort through a large crowd and identify at any given moment who the ideal kill targets are (i.e. who in the crowd is playing the squishiest jobs, and who is being targeted by your team) so that you can help your team secure kills. If you are already doing this, then keeping an eye out for those pesky SAMs should be second nature. If you're firing blindly into the crowd, then you are just padding and that's a bad habit that needs to be worked on, SAM LB or not.

It's also extremely unnecessary to just not use AoEs ever while a SAM is present. Even the jobs who are at risk of accidentally hitting into Chiten the most have different ways of dealing with it:
- DRG can simply reposition+reangle their line AoEs so that it misses SAMs (mouseover macros really help with this)
- SMN can put up barrier when dropping Bahamut, as well bind the SAM so that it stops them from using LB.
- DNC's Honing Ovation comes with a small party-wide barrier that can save yourself and other people from getting OHKO'd (and it is hilarious when it does happen)
- DRK can LB if they accidentally pull SAM into Salted Earth, which doubles as juicy burst that their team can follow up on. Failing that, they can TBN, accept that their setup is ruined and get the hell out of there.
It's also not the end of the world if you get Kuzushi'd - you can run towards the SAM's blind spot and pray that you're out of their field of view when their LB does go off. Or, if you're unfortunate enough to be the target, run away from your team, save them from getting OHKO'd and think about how to avoid getting hit next time.

Comparing SAM to MCH is also inappropriate when old Chainsaw was complete RNG with zero counterplay. Sam's LB is nothing against players with situational awareness--hell, even against players who somehow hit into Chiten, it still has many points where it can go wrong. I hate using the phrase "git gud", but a predictable LB that leaves so much of its power in the hands of its enemies should not be the target of nerfs. Especially not when there are more broken things in Frontlines lol


SAM LB is not an AoE between you and your target. You can test this out in Wolves' Den:

If you stand where the arrow is and target the circled dummy, you'll notice the two in front of you will not get hit by Zantetsuken.

Multiple jobs use aoe as half their toolkit. Imagine never using any of that because of one ability on one job. Riley also misquoted it by the way. It's a 20 yalm range ending in a 5 yalm aoe. When I realized I was thinking of how other limit breaks worked I did not continue to argue this. Chainsaw might work one time in the entire game. That's not even comparable in any way shape or form even when it was a full K.O. before it's adjustment. Fantasy over gameplay is a foolish way to think. If that were the case then dragoon limit break should dismiss demi-bahamut because it's a dragon killer. Reaper should be assassinating people because the class fantasy is being an assassin if you didn't know.

……..it’s not going to be changed, it’s best to just eat it…..unless you want MCH’s 95% dmg if proc’d, leaving a puny amount of health, just to get ok’d anyway with random AoEs. Let me guess, going to complain about that too will ya? I know you going to. Maybe remove chitin debuff and only straight dmg, going to complain that SAM dmg is terrible for KO’s? How about SAM just hits 1 target instead the target plus those get cross in it’s line. Well ppl going to complain for loss of identity of the job itself.

If those changes go into effect, Ppl WILL complain that the job is much worse due to loss of kill potential especially in CC.

Again, chainsaw is a very rare proc and it's not even close to the same thing as being killed by accident. A chainsaw proc has your name on it. A random zantetsuken is to whom it may concern.

Lol, if they make Zante just a straight OP, line dmg LB like Skyshatter in FL. Cause they have to buff the potency due to lack of chiten. The amount of complaints in FL…….I can see it right now. Just SAM LBs flying everywhere, more hilarity.

Skyshatter isn't a line either. You know conflict balance is separate from frontline right? That's why you don't see the melee damage reduction in conflict. Now why was the reduction added? Because multiple job aoe made it nigh impossible to play melee. So instead of changing each job that uses aoe as rotation they slapped a damage reduction band aid on the melee. If it had only been summoner causing the issue you would probably have seen adjustment to summoner because that's how common-sense works. All you conflict players coming in to comment on frontline issues are welcome but maybe know what it is your commenting on.

[Osmond]

Skyshatter isn't a line either. You know conflict balance is separate from frontline right? That's why you don't see the melee damage reduction in conflict. Now why was the reduction added? Because multiple job aoe made it nigh impossible to play melee. So instead of changing each job that uses aoe as rotation they slapped a damage reduction band aid on the melee. If it had only been summoner causing the issue you would probably have seen adjustment to summoner because that's how common-sense works. All you conflict players coming in to comment on frontline issues are welcome but maybe know what it is you’re commenting on.

……..just stop. Many already know why the reductions were added and ppl complain about that after the change. Ppl got what they ask for and they hate it. Now ppl want to change SAM’s and PLD’s LB because it drives them nuts on FL, it’s the same thing. Again, I know what’s going to happen. YOU WILL COMPLAIN that the job isn’t what it used to be, but it’ll be too late. You got what you ask for.

[Kansene]

……..just stop. Many already know why the reductions were added and ppl complain about that after the change. Ppl got what they ask for and they hate it. Now ppl want to change SAM’s and PLD’s LB because it drives them nuts on FL, it’s the same thing. Again, I know what’s going to happen. YOU WILL COMPLAIN that the job isn’t what it used to be, but it’ll be too late. You got what you ask for.

Ever considered that the people complaining before and after might not be the same people?

[Elfidan]

……..just stop. Many already know why the reductions were added and ppl complain about that after the change. Ppl got what they ask for and they hate it. Now ppl want to change SAM’s and PLD’s LB because it drives them nuts on FL, it’s the same thing. Again, I know what’s going to happen. YOU WILL COMPLAIN that the job isn’t what it used to be, but it’ll be too late. You got what you ask for.

It wasn't what people asked for it was a temporary measure to keep the player base from sliding back into thirty-minute queue during primetime. You keep citing how it's going to affect conflict if frontline receives any changes. That is why this was brought up. Yes, people will complain when they see things that don't make sense. Why are you afraid of change? Change is an essential part of life. If nothing ever changed you wouldn't be here on the internet complaining about change. Imagine never changing anything from the first time you did something. You would never improve. Are all changes good? No, they aren't but nobody can see the future and know whether a change will be good or not. Trying to shout down people you don't agree with using points that have nothing to do with the conversation seems to be your modus operandi.

[Garten]

I Just find dishonest when ppl Say: "you were complaining about something, now they made a change and you still complain"..

NOBODY asked for the increase in DR, for example what "I" was asking (cause i thought It was good for the job balance in Frontline) was to add something like a "damage fall off" of aoe skills After the 4th/5th target. I dont think that was unresonable, am i wrong?

But maybe It was too hard for SE to pull off and i went the Easy route. As usual.

[Garten]

I mean se went, Sorry, cant edit

[Elfidan]

I think most people would agree with both of these.

[Osmond]

It wasn't what people asked for it was a temporary measure to keep the player base from sliding back into thirty-minute queue during primetime. You keep citing how it's going to affect conflict if frontline receives any changes. That is why this was brought up. Yes, people will complain when they see things that don't make sense. Why are you afraid of change? Change is an essential part of life. If nothing ever changed you wouldn't be here on the internet complaining about change. Imagine never changing anything from the first time you did something. You would never improve. Are all changes good? No, they aren't but nobody can see the future and know whether a change will be good or not. Trying to shout down people you don't agree with using points that have nothing to do with the conversation seems to be your modus operandi.

…….now when did I ever said I wanted to shut someone down? I’m saying be careful what you ask for….

[Elfidan]

…….now when did I ever said I wanted to shut someone down? I’m saying be careful what you ask for….

You did a really bad job of communicating this opinion though I doubt it was actually your intent and not just an attempt to save face. Change is good and can always be reverted. Look at black mage. It's been pushed down and up several times already.

[Osmond]

Well, if they do make changes for the jobs due for FL, then yes it’ll change CC. In the end, it changes nothing. Why? Because the players will be other jobs that’ll take its place due to its tool set. Once it becomes bland, then you create another problem.

If they do make changes to SAM’s LB, while thinking about it. They’ll just 1-hit KO if chiten the target, while ppl line in sight while chiten is proc’d on them gets a 95% HP loss. Any further than that will just kill its identity. Yes, it’ll change the way it’s played in CC, nothing will change in FL even with the change. The other is more dmg reduction across the board on all classes.