Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

[Garten]

Still here to bump cause oneshot gimmicks has to go.

Edit, i want to share 2 new stories and i'll just post em here:

1) i have been zantetsuken'd by an imp (i was whm and i had miracled him prob one moment before his lb - this was hilarious).
2) i have been zantetsuken'd by a sam that i HAD NOT ATTACKED, BUT he had less than 50% hp so i used ONLY my ninja limit. Logic would say that, as lbs are described, "i" should have killed him, cause my LB is INSTANT. Instead i literally saw (cause i checked) the debuff of death on my debuffs and then we both died... COOL.. (this is beyond idiotic)

[Divinemights]

You can bump all you want but reality is it won’t get touch until 7.1 when they revamp PvP to accompany 7.1 new actions

[Garten]

You can bump all you want but reality is it won’t get touch until 7.1 when they revamp PvP to accompany 7.1 new actions

Tnx for adding posts to the thread.. usually i would agree with you.. but they touched MCH, no?

[Ransu]

Tnx for adding posts to the thread.. usually i would agree with you.. but they touched MCH, no?

There's a difference between chainsaw which was completely random and a LB which you can actively avoid by simply looking out for the chiten animation.

[Divinemights]

Tnx for adding posts to the thread.. usually i would agree with you.. but they touched MCH, no?

If you haven’t noticed, post 6.1, each job’s play style is deeply tied to the Limit Break. The change to chainsaw will not change Machinest playstyle, but change to Samurai limit break will need a tune up on entire Samurail kit because right now Samurai has no effective damage without LB.

Tune up a job at patch 6.3+ just because a fraction of people don’t k ow how to neutralize Chiten? Yeah, I don’t think so

[Astralrisk]

I disagree. NIN's LB in Frontlines is only "abusable" in a sense that a savvy NIN can cut the effort of killing any player, regardless of Battle High level, in half. Just one. Because the NIN's LB puts them on top of the target, if the target is within/next to their team, the NIN's immediate priority is to get out (not hard, due to FL's 60% melee privileges and having 2 shields, a teleport and Guard). If any team lets an enemy NIN chain their LB, especially with the now nerfed decreasing follow-up timer per kill, they're either inattentive idiots, haven't put Recuperate on their hotbar, or were basically dead anyway during a concentrated push if they were so out of MP for even just 1 Recuperate.

If you ever let yourself sit at under 50% HP when you have the MP to Recuperate in a skirmish in Frontlines, especially when there are enemy NINs involved, that free kill rebound for the NIN is entirely on you for gross negligence. Recuperating at or near 50% HP should be as reflexive as a healer popping Swiftcast when somebody dies. If the NIN somehow manages to chain their LB during a "push," the team being pushed was dead meat at that point and the NIN was just sniping kills from under their teammates. That doesn't make it abusable, that makes it a clean-up tool.

I've seen SAMs go from no battle high to instantly BH2-3 in one LB. Yes, its because they nailed a mosh pit of inattentive/reckless casual fodder players (which FL never lacks in abundance), but for a NIN to do the same thing requires a steamroll by your entire team; at which point somebody else would have killed the targets anyway, the NIN just expedited the process.

I only really said abusable since I see a much higher success rate of people using Seiton than people using Zantetsuken, I see more NINs chaining kills to get 2 levels of battle high in a fight than a SAM getting more than 1 kill with their LB. I still think at the end of the day both are mostly just really good at killing lower skilled players and is mostly effective in large team fight scenarios, which makes sense that things are more effective in a team when you play the team based mode.

If you haven’t noticed, post 6.1, each job’s play style is deeply tied to the Limit Break. The change to chainsaw will not change Machinest playstyle, but change to Samurai limit break will need a tune up on entire Samurail kit because right now Samurai has no effective damage without LB.

Tune up a job at patch 6.3+ just because a fraction of people don’t k ow how to neutralize Chiten? Yeah, I don’t think so

This is also a good point since, in FL at least, SAM is only good with its LB cuz the rest of its kit is god awful for that mode. And having to change how it works requires a full rework across the entire PvP sandbox, which I think other jobs deserve the tuning much more than SAM.

[Towa-Musa]

I disagree. NIN's LB in Frontlines is only "abusable" in a sense that a savvy NIN can cut the effort of killing any player, regardless of Battle High level, in half. Just one. Because the NIN's LB puts them on top of the target, if the target is within/next to their team, the NIN's immediate priority is to get out (not hard, due to FL's 60% melee privileges and having 2 shields, a teleport and Guard). If any team lets an enemy NIN chain their LB, especially with the now nerfed decreasing follow-up timer per kill, they're either inattentive idiots, haven't put Recuperate on their hotbar, or were basically dead anyway during a concentrated push if they were so out of MP for even just 1 Recuperate.

If you ever let yourself sit at under 50% HP when you have the MP to Recuperate in a skirmish in Frontlines, especially when there are enemy NINs involved, that free kill rebound for the NIN is entirely on you for gross negligence. Recuperating at or near 50% HP should be as reflexive as a healer popping Swiftcast when somebody dies. If the NIN somehow manages to chain their LB during a "push," the team being pushed was dead meat at that point and the NIN was just sniping kills from under their teammates. That doesn't make it abusable, that makes it a clean-up tool.

I've seen SAMs go from no battle high to instantly BH2-3 in one LB. Yes, its because they nailed a mosh pit of inattentive/reckless casual fodder players (which FL never lacks in abundance), but for a NIN to do the same thing requires a steamroll by your entire team; at which point somebody else would have killed the targets anyway, the NIN just expedited the process.

This! ninja is literally just a mop and a samurai just presses two buttons and gets BH2-3 and its dumb, id much rather zanzu instantly kill somebody when they are below 50% instead of just dropping somebody who is full hp.

[Garten]

Tune up a job at patch 6.3+ just because a fraction of people don’t k ow how to neutralize Chiten? Yeah, I don’t think so

This is were we dont agreee. "I" know how to neutralize Chiten.. Prob is that most often then not (for example when you dont have shields up) the only way to deal with them is just... doing nothing.. how is that a good design? And i dont mean to don't attack them when they have chiten up, but literally NEVER attack em, cause more often then not WHILE you are attacking them they activate chiten but THE GAME messes up priorities and you find yourself 100% to 0 hp the next second.

Sure you can argue as much as you want that this is just frontline, who cares.. but this not invalidate my point

[Divinemights]

Sure you can argue as much as you want that this is just frontline, who cares.. but this not invalidate my point

Just FYI, you are talking to someone who cares about Frontline.
It is what it is.
Chiten has been Samurai's core mechanic since day 01 and 6.1 version is a nerfed version.
The major difference right now is if you are paying attention, Samurai can't do anything at all.
In 5.1 version, that 6s duration is enough for Samurai to burst your down.

We always need to pay attention to Chiten since 4.0 PvP.
This is why veteran is very good at it because it is matter of life and death
Also 1 v 1 on Frontline was not only possible and it was popular and it is very common for Samurai vs Samurai
The ability of manipulate around Chiten was the key of determining the victor

The game also does not messes up the priority it is only demanding you to be knowledge with other job's action and animation as you should.
It is what current SE design on PvE design philosophy that you need to pay attention to Boss's animation and only difference is you are not fighting against a scripted AI.

[Valence]

People still pretending they can notice a lone samurai popping chiten right in the middle of a 72 man mess? Without enemy party lists on top of it?

omegalul