Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

[Astralrisk]

its not what you say its how you say it, those two are the biggest offenders of this. but yeah you CAN work around it, it IS possible but the fact that aoes trigger it and the fact its a instant kill no matter what (unless you have a shield like ninja has) it needs to change, if it was changed to be more like ninjas LB id be ok with it.

I don't know how often it was brought up in this post, but I honestly think NIN has a much worse and abusable LB than SAM. Being able to execute anyone in range that has 1 hp less than half health, and being able to chain it especially when you are making a good push with your team is insane. SAM can technically get collateral by killing multiple people, but with how often I play I have only seen at most 3 kills with, and very rarely. Also having to use another cooldown in order to actually debuff a player to be able to get the instant kill is very rough, especially when that CD is your main defensive outside of Guard. Also SAM having a longer CD on their LB with 120s vs the 90s on NIN is very noticeable over the course of a long game. You could argue that you can make both of these LBs only execute at a lower health percentage, but at that point it bleeds more into a CC discussion if we are talking more about ability balance(which this technically already is one but yeah).

[Towa-Musa]

I don't know how often it was brought up in this post, but I honestly think NIN has a much worse and abusable LB than SAM. Being able to execute anyone in range that has 1 hp less than half health, and being able to chain it especially when you are making a good push with your team is insane. SAM can technically get collateral by killing multiple people, but with how often I play I have only seen at most 3 kills with, and very rarely. Also having to use another cooldown in order to actually debuff a player to be able to get the instant kill is very rough, especially when that CD is your main defensive outside of Guard. Also SAM having a longer CD on their LB with 120s vs the 90s on NIN is very noticeable over the course of a long game. You could argue that you can make both of these LBs only execute at a lower health percentage, but at that point it bleeds more into a CC discussion if we are talking more about ability balance(which this technically already is one but yeah).

not reading all that, already know how the jobs work in pvp and ANYTHING is better then just having samurai being able to press the instant win bs button, ninja still has to somewhat work for their kills.

[Cidel]

I don't know how often it was brought up in this post, but I honestly think NIN has a much worse and abusable LB than SAM. Being able to execute anyone in range that has 1 hp less than half health, and being able to chain it especially when you are making a good push with your team is insane.

I disagree. NIN's LB in Frontlines is only "abusable" in a sense that a savvy NIN can cut the effort of killing any player, regardless of Battle High level, in half. Just one. Because the NIN's LB puts them on top of the target, if the target is within/next to their team, the NIN's immediate priority is to get out (not hard, due to FL's 60% melee privileges and having 2 shields, a teleport and Guard). If any team lets an enemy NIN chain their LB, especially with the now nerfed decreasing follow-up timer per kill, they're either inattentive idiots, haven't put Recuperate on their hotbar, or were basically dead anyway during a concentrated push if they were so out of MP for even just 1 Recuperate.

If you ever let yourself sit at under 50% HP when you have the MP to Recuperate in a skirmish in Frontlines, especially when there are enemy NINs involved, that free kill rebound for the NIN is entirely on you for gross negligence. Recuperating at or near 50% HP should be as reflexive as a healer popping Swiftcast when somebody dies. If the NIN somehow manages to chain their LB during a "push," the team being pushed was dead meat at that point and the NIN was just sniping kills from under their teammates. That doesn't make it abusable, that makes it a clean-up tool.

I've seen SAMs go from no battle high to instantly BH2-3 in one LB. Yes, its because they nailed a mosh pit of inattentive/reckless casual fodder players (which FL never lacks in abundance), but for a NIN to do the same thing requires a steamroll by your entire team; at which point somebody else would have killed the targets anyway, the NIN just expedited the process.

[Astralrisk]

I disagree. NIN's LB in Frontlines is only "abusable" in a sense that a savvy NIN can cut the effort of killing any player, regardless of Battle High level, in half. Just one. Because the NIN's LB puts them on top of the target, if the target is within/next to their team, the NIN's immediate priority is to get out (not hard, due to FL's 60% melee privileges and having 2 shields, a teleport and Guard). If any team lets an enemy NIN chain their LB, especially with the now nerfed decreasing follow-up timer per kill, they're either inattentive idiots, haven't put Recuperate on their hotbar, or were basically dead anyway during a concentrated push if they were so out of MP for even just 1 Recuperate.

If you ever let yourself sit at under 50% HP when you have the MP to Recuperate in a skirmish in Frontlines, especially when there are enemy NINs involved, that free kill rebound for the NIN is entirely on you for gross negligence. Recuperating at or near 50% HP should be as reflexive as a healer popping Swiftcast when somebody dies. If the NIN somehow manages to chain their LB during a "push," the team being pushed was dead meat at that point and the NIN was just sniping kills from under their teammates. That doesn't make it abusable, that makes it a clean-up tool.

I've seen SAMs go from no battle high to instantly BH2-3 in one LB. Yes, its because they nailed a mosh pit of inattentive/reckless casual fodder players (which FL never lacks in abundance), but for a NIN to do the same thing requires a steamroll by your entire team; at which point somebody else would have killed the targets anyway, the NIN just expedited the process.

I only really said abusable since I see a much higher success rate of people using Seiton than people using Zantetsuken, I see more NINs chaining kills to get 2 levels of battle high in a fight than a SAM getting more than 1 kill with their LB. I still think at the end of the day both are mostly just really good at killing lower skilled players and is mostly effective in large team fight scenarios, which makes sense that things are more effective in a team when you play the team based mode.

If you haven’t noticed, post 6.1, each job’s play style is deeply tied to the Limit Break. The change to chainsaw will not change Machinest playstyle, but change to Samurai limit break will need a tune up on entire Samurail kit because right now Samurai has no effective damage without LB.

Tune up a job at patch 6.3+ just because a fraction of people don’t k ow how to neutralize Chiten? Yeah, I don’t think so

This is also a good point since, in FL at least, SAM is only good with its LB cuz the rest of its kit is god awful for that mode. And having to change how it works requires a full rework across the entire PvP sandbox, which I think other jobs deserve the tuning much more than SAM.

[Towa-Musa]

I disagree. NIN's LB in Frontlines is only "abusable" in a sense that a savvy NIN can cut the effort of killing any player, regardless of Battle High level, in half. Just one. Because the NIN's LB puts them on top of the target, if the target is within/next to their team, the NIN's immediate priority is to get out (not hard, due to FL's 60% melee privileges and having 2 shields, a teleport and Guard). If any team lets an enemy NIN chain their LB, especially with the now nerfed decreasing follow-up timer per kill, they're either inattentive idiots, haven't put Recuperate on their hotbar, or were basically dead anyway during a concentrated push if they were so out of MP for even just 1 Recuperate.

If you ever let yourself sit at under 50% HP when you have the MP to Recuperate in a skirmish in Frontlines, especially when there are enemy NINs involved, that free kill rebound for the NIN is entirely on you for gross negligence. Recuperating at or near 50% HP should be as reflexive as a healer popping Swiftcast when somebody dies. If the NIN somehow manages to chain their LB during a "push," the team being pushed was dead meat at that point and the NIN was just sniping kills from under their teammates. That doesn't make it abusable, that makes it a clean-up tool.

I've seen SAMs go from no battle high to instantly BH2-3 in one LB. Yes, its because they nailed a mosh pit of inattentive/reckless casual fodder players (which FL never lacks in abundance), but for a NIN to do the same thing requires a steamroll by your entire team; at which point somebody else would have killed the targets anyway, the NIN just expedited the process.

This! ninja is literally just a mop and a samurai just presses two buttons and gets BH2-3 and its dumb, id much rather zanzu instantly kill somebody when they are below 50% instead of just dropping somebody who is full hp.