Damage "taxes" deserve serious reconsideration

[remiff]

Well I mean I think MCH is still more brain than SAM currently. If MCH is going to be behind melee, then MCH needs to have raid damage buffs to support that. Otherwise you'd rather have a better rDPS ranged or just another melee and accept whatever penalty 3 melee would bring and playing MCH feels bad. "Why would I want a MCH when I could just take a NIN for Mug, or MNK for Brotherhood, or RPR for Arcane Circle, or DRG for Battle Litany and Dragon's Eye?"

If MCH is going to have no damage buffs like BLM and SAM, then they need to do damage like a BLM and SAM.

the balance of final fantasy 14 in its current design and in the devs vision is completely different, just that the machinist without synergy is totally incompatible, because they will never give him samurai and black mage DPS, not because 'It's 'easy to play', but because they will never remove the mobility tax, at best they will decrease it.


The machinist needs at least synergy return similar to that of the RPR-SMN.

And I don't see how they could fix the global balance issues before 7.0, DPS increases would certainly decrease players' frustration, but that by itself won't fix the current problem in the game,
I think it would be better for developers to take inspiration from the stormblood balance, it would reduce a lot of problems, even if a perfectly balanced game is statistically impossible.

[CKNovel]

I'm sorry, but where's your clear for either? Also might wish to look at the movement data and see that a healer in the wrong spot killed me on dog dashes. Maybe don't throw shade when you aren't tall enough to cast any? You are dismissed

I cleared all ultimate including DSR.
Passed E8SP1 on week 1 and cleared on week 2.

Does that makes my opinion automatically valid and superior to yours?
No, it doesn't, I don't have more skill and knowledge, just a bit more time than others.
As you do too. Don't play that game, there's always someone better than you and the remaining knowledge to acquire is never ending.

You are "dismissed".

[Aikaal]

Precisely, it's the 2nd easiest DPS to optimize, the first being SMN

Those are strong words my man.

My group is currently holding 6 minute buffs on P7S which is why I go RDM on this fight over SMN. Doing an analysis, I noticed SMN is still really stronk and way over RDM unlike p8s second boss.

https://xivanalysis.com/fflogs/2yhJV...pe=damage-done Clear with a group that don't hold buffs with a SMN in it. 9m22s clear time.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/Zn8LT...pe=damage-done

Clear with a BLM they do hold buffs and clear at 9m16s.

Summary; the entire group lose 1-2 GCD by not holding their buffs for the Summoner. That's the only reason they'd lose on those buffs because it cost them more to have the one summoner desync on the last buff window. You were saying Summoner is the easiest to optimize? Having an entire party adjust for Summoner doesn't sounds easy

I cleared all ultimate including DSR.
Passed E8SP1 on week 1 and cleared on week 2.

Does that makes my opinion automatically valid and superior to yours?
No, it doesn't, I don't have more skill and knowledge, just a bit more time than others.
As you do too. Don't play that game, there's always someone better than you and the remaining knowledge to acquire is never ending.

You are "dismissed".

[Liam_Harper]

The best way to look at taxes is imagine selfish melee dps were the only jobs and the game allows you to choose one from a range of talents

+10% damage
New skill, Verraise
New skill, Curing Waltz
Positional requirements removed and attack range increased.
Rotation slightly simplified.


What do you think the talent of choice would be 99.9% of the time at endgame?

[Yeastyloins]

They must be balanced for all content. Not only the high end, hard content. So, my points are arcurrate.
People are doing normal stuff to. And has hard times in it to. Balancing mean, that the class need to be usefull in most content. Not necressary in everyone (heared, that blm was bad in 6.1, because of many movement in the content)

Except in most old content, you could have all 4 of dps an 1 heal and tank intentionally die and the remaining healer and tank can finish the fight perfectly fine. There little to few DPS checks in normal content and even those are surpassed by people hitting their buttons with like 30% efficiency. Given that, it is irrelevant to balance job design on old content since the balance in old content is for the most part irrelevant.

[Flana]

You were saying Summoner is the easiest to optimize? Having an entire party adjust for Summoner doesn't sounds easy

It is trivially easy. The trash design of new SMN dragging down the rest of your party doesn't make it any harder to play, and acting like a single gcd hold is somehow unique is so laughably nonsensical I can't believe you're actually trying to argue it.

[Aikaal]

It is trivially easy. The trash design of new SMN dragging down the rest of your party doesn't make it any harder to play, and acting like a single gcd hold is somehow unique is so laughably nonsensical I can't believe you're actually trying to argue it.

Hi, since you didn't seen to understand my previous post, I'll just post it again.

Those are strong words my man.

My group is currently holding 6 minute buffs on P7S which is why I go RDM on this fight over SMN. Doing an analysis, I noticed SMN is still really stronk and way over RDM unlike p8s second boss.

https://xivanalysis.com/fflogs/2yhJV...pe=damage-done Clear with a group that don't hold buffs with a SMN in it. 9m22s clear time.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/Zn8LT...pe=damage-done

Clear with a BLM they do hold buffs and clear at 9m16s.

Summary; the entire group lose 1-2 GCD by not holding their buffs for the Summoner. That's the only reason they'd lose on those buffs because it cost them more to have the one summoner desync on the last buff window. You were saying Summoner is the easiest to optimize? Having an entire party adjust for Summoner doesn't sounds easy

You can claim simplicity of rotation = simplicity of optimizing. Summoner is toxic to optimize because 7 people work around Summoner, they can't optimize. If it is impossible to optimize a rotation, how can you claim it is easy?

[Keichi]

Except in most old content, you could have all 4 of dps an 1 heal and tank intentionally die and the remaining healer and tank can finish the fight perfectly fine. There little to few DPS checks in normal content and even those are surpassed by people hitting their buttons with like 30% efficiency. Given that, it is irrelevant to balance job design on old content since the balance in old content is for the most part irrelevant.

You are downplaying the older content to much. There is no way, that only a tank and healer can in synch dungeons doing the job of 8 people. It would only be possible for the last few % hp. The normal content can be hard enough to. Even the older content, when the player dont doing the mechanik
And a good example, where ranger had the advangte is the first boss in the Yohras raid (or something this way) from shb.
He is creating often, fast, close up aoe, who are easily to miss, and endanger esspecial meele. Than, he has his beams, who can forcing to go away from him. His enegry ball, who are doing the same. And esspeacil, the phase, where you have to run in a circle, because of falling energy sphere. He is a enemy, where meele can have very often drawbacks. Even caster can be lesser effectiv agains him, because of the many movement. Ranger have it as the best agains him. I know, that it is only one enemy. But, he is a prime example.

And like i sayed. I dont watch simply for the current content. My opinion is based one the pure concepts of the distance roles and the scenarios, whe had often in the game. Not, on the details of the current dungeons.
There are often close up aoes. At last from feeling, are they more common, as distance aoe. So, meele have a disadvangte in this case. They have to do combos, to make the full power. Most caster have at last smaller or no combos (they have priority in most cases or 2 skill combos). It is more likely, that they are going down, when they have the aggro. Ranger can running away and doing at last some dmg agains the enemy, at the same time.
And, they have in this game the mechanik of positionals. What make it even harder to have max dmg. Because the enemy can moving around and you have to move at the right spot, while you are using your skills. Ranger dont have it. In theory easie. In the actually fight a pain. Because of the rotating boss. Our, simply because you are using your skills to fast and need a break, to go to the right position. Or, are using the skill, before you reach the right spot.
The concept of the meele mechanik is complexer and deserve it, to make more dmg, as ranger. And caster in the middle, because they must stand still for casting (in most cases).

The only thing, that i can agree is, to minimizing the cap. And, giving the mch a similary dps as the blackmage. But, they can not be the exact same as meele.

[Housinginneed]

You are downplaying the older content to much. There is no way, that only a tank and healer can in synch dungeons doing the job of 8 people. It would only be possible for the last few % hp. The normal content can be hard enough to. Even the older content, when the player dont doing the mechanik
And a good example, where ranger had the advangte is the first boss in the Yohras raid (or something this way) from shb.
He is creating often, fast, close up aoe, who are easily to miss, and endanger esspecial meele. Than, he has his beams, who can forcing to go away from him. His enegry ball, who are doing the same. And esspeacil, the phase, where you have to run in a circle, because of falling energy sphere. He is a enemy, where meele can have very often drawbacks. Even caster can be lesser effectiv agains him, because of the many movement. Ranger have it as the best agains him. I know, that it is only one enemy. But, he is a prime example.

Are you seriously using lvl 80 content to argue your balance ideas now? You seem to have really been pushed back into a corner.
If you can't clear any content below extreme due to "job balance", its 100% skill issue, it basically puts you in Iron/Bronze tier of any competitive game with a ranking system.
You are trying way too hard to defend your Monks #1 rdps spot.

No one is arguing that ranged should do as much dps as melees, yet every post, you comment that they should not be, who are you even arguing with?

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

And, they have in this game the mechanik of positionals. What make it even harder to have max dmg. Because the enemy can moving around and you have to move at the right spot, while you are using your skills. Ranger dont have it. In theory easie. In the actually fight a pain. Because of the rotating boss. Our, simply because you are using your skills to fast and need a break, to go to the right position. Or, are using the skill, before you reach the right spot.
The concept of the meele mechanik is complexer and deserve it, to make more dmg, as ranger. And caster in the middle, because they must stand still for casting (in most cases).

The only thing, that i can agree is, to minimizing the cap. And, giving the mch a similary dps as the blackmage. But, they can not be the exact same as meele.

But you can miss every single positional and several GCDs and still deal significantly more dps as a melee job than a caster or ranged job playing perfectly and not missing anything. I have been waiting so long to have a reason to respond to you. I admire your tenacity and your posts are the highlight of my woefully inadequate days, never stop.

The best way to look at taxes is imagine selfish melee dps were the only jobs and the game allows you to choose one from a range of talents

+10% damage
New skill, Verraise
New skill, Curing Waltz
Positional requirements removed and attack range increased.
Rotation slightly simplified.


What do you think the talent of choice would be 99.9% of the time at endgame?

More like;
You can choose no talents or any number of talents.
New skill, Verraise and -15% damage.
New skill, Curing Waltz and -10% damage.
Positional requirements removed and attack range increased and -10% damage.
Rotation slightly simplified and randomly deal anywhere between +3% to -15% damage.