Why is it so common to join extremes without watching a guide first?

[TaleraRistain]

Because at that point, no, it doesn't matter if you want to go in and learn slowly, you lost all reason and that person doesn't need to deal with your entitled arse any further.

It does matter, because it sounded like in the example you gave that the rest of the group communicated that they wanted to figure it out themselves. You're the entitled one there thinking that only your opinion on the subject mattered.

Nobody faults you for leaving. It's this attitude you have that *they* were the problem because of what they wanted instead of you just not jiving with that group. They might even have kicked you to avoid the penalty if you had asked. I've certainly been happy to do that if someone doesn't want to continue trying.

[Reinha]

Ok people dont seem to understand what I mean.

Why join and ask for the strat written in party chat when you can easily read the strat on google?

Offering guidance is one thing, rewriting the mechanics for you as soon as you join the party makes no sense when you can just go to google to read before that and save everybody some time.

Some mechanics are so lengthy to explain (Thordan?) that more often than not nobody gets to finish and they maybe would if you would have read beforehand. And I can understand you can’t remember everything, but you will remember at least SOMETHING that in the end will make the whole run smoother for everybody.

If you want to do a blind run then join and say that. Don’t join and ask for the full written guide when that is accessible literally everywhere online.

It makes NO difference.

If you learn by doing then congratulations, everyone learns that way, thats not even the point, but don’t join asking people to write down for you something you can find in ten seconds to begin with.

They are lazy. They don't want to learn through practice since that would involve figuring out the mechanic on their own instead of asking you. But of course "anything I need to know?" is how their supposedly blind run begins. They want you to watch/read the guide and tell them what the guide says.

I used to have consolegameswiki text guides open back when I did extremes in Mentor roulette, and I'd copy paste the mechanics after a wipe and a "what happened". Thordan in particular was a fight where the text guide came in handy. No need to waste time typing 9 phases, just copy paste it straight from the website.

Actual blind runs where no one asks to be spoonfed strats are fine, but they aren't for me.

[Packetdancer]

Another thing to note for level 50/60 extremes is the free trial players. They can't form their own party. Duty finder is really their only option for these.

This is true, and something I often forget to mention when pointing that out. So yeah, even if they do know that Duty Finder is not the best option to queue in, for free trial users it's their only option, short of asking on the Novice Network for someone else to make a PF for them.

(I do get why they can't do it; if free trial accounts could make PF listings, the gil seller bots would just immediately clutter party finder with 14 thousand "MOOGLE DOG DASH PVP-BANK DOT COWCOM [REMOVE ANIMALS] CHEAP GIL BEST LOOTS CLEARS DRAGONSONG SAVAGE" advertisements in the form of PF listings. But it's an unfortunate limitation nonetheless.)

[PharisHanasaki]

Because the game doesn't expect you to watch a guide for any of the content. If anything, it makes me sad when people watch guides for normal msq content.

Just play the game

[Midareyukki]

Maybe you should read this back and think about what you're saying here.

Jumping in with a strategy when people want to figure stuff out for themselves isn't courteous. You could have simply asked whether they wanted help, and let them answer; then if the group isn't compatible with you then accept that you're not suited to that style of play and politely decline. If 3 wipes is just too much for you, then that sounds very impatient.

Going on about being a pro player. I dunno. Like I said before, guides make a big difference to content difficulty, and can take challenging content down to being super easy. So acting like pros read guides and get it right away doesn't sound right to me.

On the "pros" thing, I went off of what Deveryn said. To me, being a pro means getting your rotation flawlessly, lining everything up. At no point did I say it's perfection, I just said that I don't expect you to be good, much less excellent, but that there is a baseline to be met. Mechanics have appeared in the game before and you should know them by now. Lapse of judgment and all that I'm perfectly capable of understanding, as even monkeys fall from trees. But when it's clear you don't know the bare minimum mechanic? Then that's a problem.

As for me being impatient, yes well I am a rather impatient person. But I don't think I'm wrong in saying that after four times of wiping, I shouldn't be around. Especially not after the third one where they refused to learn. Or am I?
I think it's a moral high horse that you're on (at least if you're going through such lengths as to call me impatient over this...), since you're really only sticking around and being kind too naïvely rather than seeing the writing on the wall. And before you accuse me of anything else, need I remind you that I stuck around for four tries? And that I actually had the common courtesy of reaching out a hand? If they don't want to learn, they don't want to learn. What more do you want me to do? What else can I do other than offer advice that has already been swatted away? 3 wipes isn't a sign of impatience. Not to mention it was four wipes, not three like you wrote. Perhaps you are the one who needs to go back and read? Four wipes, with my explanation in-between.

There is no strategy anyway. There is only simple "do this mechanic". Strategy is for Extremes. For Normals you resolve clearly defined mechanics, and when you don't understand them, then people will usually tell you. If anyone saw me fail that often and told me, I wouldn't be upset. I'd thank them. Because clearly I wasn't getting it. Not swat me away just because I didn't ask before. Well, I didn't insult either, so why are you biting the hand that feeds you?
I didn't "jump in" with a strategy. I don't know where you got that from. I queued for Duty Finder. And on DF, I really don't care what it is you do, so long as you get results. People might call me too slow or say I move too fast for mechanics, but if they get resolved with no harm done, with me not interfering with anyone's abilities, all gucci. It's when people fail that I believe is a problem. And after failing the same things so many times, I naturally feel compelled to point out. The only thing I failed on was being the nice boy and ask if they wanted to. We tried a fourth time, they didn't get it regardless, what more do you want me to do, stay and bash my head against a wall? That doesn't sound right to me.

You guys treat this game way too politely for its own good. It's nice to be kind to people and that's what we should aspire to, but politness only takes you so far. I'm not lacking in anyone's respect by admitting "this group isn't for me, c'est la vie".

And again I reiterate: YOU read my post. Because this?

then if the group isn't compatible with you then accept that you're not suited to that style of play and politely decline

This is what I did. I offered my advice, it was take it or leave it, I didn't care. They chose not to, they chose to ignore what I said. And I don't know about you, but I have better things to do than to entertain people who won't listen.
You can't win them all the time, might as well accept that and move on. If you're this unfailingly kind, then good for you, but don't project it onto people who have their own limits and didn't disrespect anyone. Because as I said, the only thing I subscribed to was the bare common courtesy. I'm not gonna bend over backwards at every turn. Especially not for those who don't want it.

What to me also doesn't sound right is you saying that over me leaving on the FOURTH try, after actually explaining to them the mechanic they consistently failed on, when there's far worse in the game. People who insult the everliving hell at the 1st run and bail. I'm not one of those, I actually do try to help. I just can't help those who don't want to be helped. And that is not my fault in any way. So stop acting like it is.

[SassyAssassin]

Dont bother, he didn’t read my post either from the beginning or rather read it and decided to get emotional over one situation that happened to him that had nothing to do with what I said.
Nowhere before did I ask or state that I was referring to people doing blind runs. I asked why people don’t read up, and join parties straight up asking “strat?”. What that has to do with running blind I don’t know, unless someone spelling the mechanics for you counts as blind now.

[Tiramu]

... length snip ...

What to me also doesn't sound right is you saying that over me leaving on the FOURTH try, after actually explaining to them the mechanic they consistently failed on, when there's far worse in the game. People who insult the everliving hell at the 1st run and bail. I'm not one of those, I actually do try to help. I just can't help those who don't want to be helped. And that is not my fault in any way. So stop acting like it is.

My disagreement with you is that they were inconsiderate to you. You found yourself in a blind group, tried to backseat game them, and then wondered why they told you to stop and ignored your strategy. Obviously a blind group isn't going to want that and will ignore your strategy. There is nothing wrong with leaving a group on the understanding that you found yourself in the wrong group - I have no issue with this at all. But there is a world of difference between that and calling them inconsiderate and not willing to listen to advice.

I've been in that situation myself several times in a blind groups where the deal is that if you know the strat to keep stum unless asked, but someone just had to bang on about the strategy and couldn't let it go.

Dont bother, he didn’t read my post either from the beginning or rather read it and decided to get emotional over one situation that happened to him that had nothing to do with what I said.
Nowhere before did I ask or state that I was referring to people doing blind runs. I asked why people don’t read up, and join parties straight up asking “strat?”. What that has to do with running blind I don’t know, unless someone spelling the mechanics for you counts as blind now.

No, I read your post and disagreed with a few points you made, specifically that blind players are unprepared or inconsiderate. Seeing as I was far from the only person to pick up on it, and you felt the need to edit your post, it might be that you err'd in how you put your point across. The example I gave was pointing out that you can spin it both ways and from my experience the guided Ex groups have tended to be the most problematic. It might not be an experience you have shared, but its mine.

FTR, I don't consider players who enter groups and say "strat?" as blind players. But I also don't lump those players in with newbies who are asking for advice or opening the floor to you helping them. Thats pretty standard practice in MSQ content when people are new, and the game does not communicate the step up to extreme particularly well. In this case, judgement is kinda harsh because they aren't going to know how things work.

[SassyAssassin]

They are lazy. They don't want to learn through practice since that would involve figuring out the mechanic on their own instead of asking you. But of course "anything I need to know?" is how their supposedly blind run begins. They want you to watch/read the guide and tell them what the guide says.

I used to have consolegameswiki text guides open back when I did extremes in Mentor roulette, and I'd copy paste the mechanics after a wipe and a "what happened". Thordan in particular was a fight where the text guide came in handy. No need to waste time typing 9 phases, just copy paste it straight from the website.

Actual blind runs where no one asks to be spoonfed strats are fine, but they aren't for me.

Yeah figured just as much.

I don’t know since when joining completely unprepared, without a sprout above your head and directly asking people to spell something out for you that you could have read yourself counts as trying, effort or “blind run” but participation trophies and all that.

I always thought there is a difference between guidance and copy pasting mechanics they can read on google but I guess thats what they expect from mentors now, Ill copy paste the mechanics, they ignore them, wipe five times and let that sweet sweet echo kill the boss for you. Gotcha.

Also since Im reaching my daily limit Ill just answer here to the pro gamer blind runners:

If you wanna do a blind run, state that when you join, and Ill explain the mechanics to you each time you fail if you want to, I have the patience for that, but unless you made a party finder for your specific blind run there are many other people in the party to be considered that perhaps read up beforehand, joined to clear and not to cater to one person. So if blind runs is what you want, don’t drag people that waited over half an hour for a queue in df and then have to leave and wait once again as to not offend you with……doing mechanics…

[NekoMataMata]

People are impatient and I also think that people find watching guides akin to studying for an exam or test. You might need to do it but it's boring and a lot of people don't want to do it.

[Midareyukki]

People are impatient and I also think that people find watching guides akin to studying for an exam or test. You might need to do it but it's boring and a lot of people don't want to do it.

Then you fail the exam, so stop whining when the kids who did study got a better grade than you and don't want you around their group sessions to distract them.