Why is it so common to join extremes without watching a guide first?

[LianaThorne]

I go into everything blind for the first time because I enjoy it. Plain and simple. I make people aware that I am going in blind and have never experienced anything other than "Okay" or "Oh, same!". I don't expect to be carried and if I die, I try to work out how to fix it or ask questions. If I'm still struggling, then I turn to a guide.

I'd at least like a chance to figure it out for myself before having my hand held by someone else. Not sure when going in blind for first experience became a bad thing but this is a bit sad.

If ya'll are in a rush to do things right, find or put together a group that plays to your expectations. If you're doing mentor roulette... well you're choosing to do mentor roulette...if it's an issue that new people will often go in without knowledge, then don't do mentor roulette. XD All you can do is control what you do, not anyone else.

[Iyrnthota]

I go into everything blind for the first time because I enjoy it. Plain and simple. I don't expect to be carried and if I die, I try to work out how to fix it or ask questions. If I'm still struggling, then I turn to a guide.

I'd at least like a chance to figure it out for myself before having my hand held by someone else. Not sure when going in blind for first experience became a bad thing but this is a bit sad.

Going in blind is perfectly fine, but it's about expectations.
I wouldn't join a EX Prog PF blind if it clearly stated "please watch a guide", for example.

The OP was initially about people who go in blind, claim they want to prog it blind, but immediately ask for someone to explain all the strats to them.
At that point you aren't actually going in blind nor do you want to, you're just wasting everyone's time. Watch a guide.

[LianaThorne]

Going in blind is perfectly fine, but it's about expectations.
I wouldn't join a EX Prog PF blind if it clearly stated "please watch a guide", for example.

The OP was initially about people who go in blind, claim they want to prog it blind, but immediately ask for someone to explain all the strats to them.
At that point you aren't actually going in blind nor do you want to, you're just wasting everyone's time. Watch a guide.

Ive personally never experienced anyone like that so I can't comment on it. I usually just get silent groups outside of like myself and one or two other people trying to help keep things organized. Is this a common thing people experience or is this one bad experience by OP being turned into a bigger deal?

[Iyrnthota]

Ive personally never experienced anyone like that so I can't comment on it. I usually just get silent groups outside of like myself and one or two other people trying to help keep things organized. Is this a common thing people experience or is this one bad experience by OP being turned into a bigger deal?

While I haven't experienced it myself, I've seen enough people talk about it to know that it is common when doing Mentor roulettes.
Often sprouts will join EX duties using Duty finder instead of PF, which comes with a whole range of issues.

Some are not very polite when people attempt to explain the way things are usually done.

[AmiableApkallu]

I mean, if you get an extreme in Mentor Roulette, it is almost always because the sprouts don't know what an extreme is, so obviously have no idea they should prepare for it.

Yes and no. I remember queueing for ARR extremes in Duty Finder as a sprout. An "extreme" is a more difficult version of the "hard" and/or "normal" version of the fight. The game all but tells you that. And like every other dungeon and trial you've done, there's this journal entry you want to get rid of, and you've always used Duty Finder in the past, so that's where you turn to yet again.

The problem is that as a sprout, you don't realize how broken the item-level sync is in ARR. All those dungeons and trials labeled "hard" don't actually seem that much more difficult than the "normal" version, so there's no expectation that an "extreme" would be any worse of a jump up in difficulty. And indeed, at least for a few of them, once someone explains the one tricky mechanic, the party powers through by sheer force.

[LianaThorne]

While I haven't experienced it myself, I've seen enough people talk about it to know that it is common when doing Mentor roulettes.
Often sprouts will join EX duties using Duty finder instead of PF, which comes with a whole range of issues.

Some are not very polite when people attempt to explain the way things are usually done.

I mean, from my memory back then the game doesn't tell you to use party finder when unlocking the first extreme (I believe it's Levi but I might be wrong). So in that case, unless someone goes out of their way to educate said sprout, they'll just use Duty Finder. You can't really blame them for Square's lack of understanding that JP and NA/EU operate differently for harder content (JP does things mainly through DF with the assistance of macros if you weren't aware before). I also don't believe they could even see on the Party Finder that people are queueing through there for other types of hard content since they wouldn't even have it unlocked (unless they got lucky when another Levi EX was being done through there).

As far as people being rude, it's unfortunate but this is the internet where people don't really feel a need to be as closed mouth about what they're thinking. This will be something encountered anywhere. All you can really do is kick them or leave yourself if kicking isn't an option, but their personality probably won't change by just asking them to stop. I mean it's possible I suppose.

[Iyrnthota]

I mean, from my memory back then the game doesn't tell you to use party finder when unlocking the first extreme (I believe it's Levi but I might be wrong). So in that case, unless someone goes out of their way to educate said sprout, they'll just use Duty Finder. You can't really blame them for Square's lack of understanding that JP and NA/EU operate differently for harder content (JP does things solely through DF if you weren't aware before).

As far as people being rude, it's unfortunate but this is the internet where people don't really feel a need to be as closed mouth about what they're thinking. This will be something encountered anywhere on the internet. All you can really do is kick them or leave yourself if kicking isn't an option, but their personality probably won't change by just asking them to stop.

It is not unexpected for people to turn there first, that is true.

My understanding of the JP EX+ culture is that learning is done through PF, but re-clears/farms are done via DF, so I believe learning through DF would be incorrect in JP as well.

Regardless, I think OP's initial point stands. As broad as the title of this thread is, the content of the OP is actually quite specific as to the context of what irritates them.

[LianaThorne]

It is not unexpected for people to turn there first, that is true.

My understanding of the JP EX+ culture is that learning is done through PF, but re-clears/farms are done via DF, so I believe learning through DF would be incorrect in JP as well.

Regardless, I think OP's initial point stands. As broad as the title of this thread is, the content of the OP is actually quite specific as to the context of what irritates them.

Annoying, sure. I'll give it that. But I guess kind of just depends on each individuals tolerance for new players and what that can come with. I don't necessarily think that a new sprout intentionally goes into their first extreme with a mentality of: "Oh I'm gonna say I want to do this blind but then ask a bunch of questions." I'd align myself more with the thought of them becoming potentially overwhelmed when they realize exactly what's going on and panic. It would also make sense that they'd be more irritated in a heightened state of mind and make some potentially rude remarks.

Yeah learning is done through there but they use the DF for harder content in a way that NA/EU doesn't. Which is why I also feel they should add some sort of warning to the game that attempting said content through PF would be recommended and to not attempt DF until they are comfortable with the fight. Would help avoid sprouts falling to the EX DF hole and probably relieve some stress from others who don't want to deal with it in Mentor roulette. Even then, probably still would have some sprouts who just don't pay attention and do it anyway so..

I'm curious actually, what would be the best solution to this problem?

[Iyrnthota]

Annoying, sure. I'll give it that. But I guess kind of just depends on each individuals tolerance for new players and what that can come with. I don't necessarily think that a new sprout intentionally goes into their first extreme with a mentality of: "Oh I'm gonna say I want to do this blind but then ask a bunch of questions." I'd align myself more with the thought of them becoming potentially overwhelmed when they realize exactly what's going on and panic. It would also make sense that they'd be more irritated in a heightened state of mind and make some potentially rude remarks.

Yeah learning is done through there but they use the DF for harder content in a way that NA/EU doesn't. Which is why I also feel they should add some sort of warning to the game that attempting said content through PF would be recommended and to not attempt DF until they are comfortable with the fight. Would help avoid sprouts falling to the EX DF hole and probably relieve some stress from others who don't want to deal with it in Mentor roulette. Even then, probably still would have some sprouts who just don't pay attention and do it anyway so..

I'm curious actually, what would be the best solution to this problem?

Hard to say really. Since most regions use PF as the primary learning tool, it would make sense to me for the game to direct players there in the case of EX+
Maybe remove them from being DF queueable entirely?
A bit drastic granted, but there's not much benefit to having them there, except for sprouts to get their first EX clears against Ifrit or similar.

[LianaThorne]

Hard to say really. Since most regions use PF as the primary learning tool, it would make sense to me for the game to direct players there in the case of EX+
Maybe remove them from being DF queueable entirely?
A bit drastic granted, but there's not much benefit to having them there, except for sprouts to get their first EX clears against Ifrit or similar.

Would probably make a good thread to have if it's becoming a larger issue, unless the title can be changed on this one to be more along the lines of: "Suggestion: Please direct new players to queue for EX+ content through PF instead of DF." or something like that.