Why is it so common to join extremes without watching a guide first?

[SassyAssassin]

They are lazy. They don't want to learn through practice since that would involve figuring out the mechanic on their own instead of asking you. But of course "anything I need to know?" is how their supposedly blind run begins. They want you to watch/read the guide and tell them what the guide says.

I used to have consolegameswiki text guides open back when I did extremes in Mentor roulette, and I'd copy paste the mechanics after a wipe and a "what happened". Thordan in particular was a fight where the text guide came in handy. No need to waste time typing 9 phases, just copy paste it straight from the website.

Actual blind runs where no one asks to be spoonfed strats are fine, but they aren't for me.

Yeah figured just as much.

I don’t know since when joining completely unprepared, without a sprout above your head and directly asking people to spell something out for you that you could have read yourself counts as trying, effort or “blind run” but participation trophies and all that.

I always thought there is a difference between guidance and copy pasting mechanics they can read on google but I guess thats what they expect from mentors now, Ill copy paste the mechanics, they ignore them, wipe five times and let that sweet sweet echo kill the boss for you. Gotcha.

Also since Im reaching my daily limit Ill just answer here to the pro gamer blind runners:

If you wanna do a blind run, state that when you join, and Ill explain the mechanics to you each time you fail if you want to, I have the patience for that, but unless you made a party finder for your specific blind run there are many other people in the party to be considered that perhaps read up beforehand, joined to clear and not to cater to one person. So if blind runs is what you want, don’t drag people that waited over half an hour for a queue in df and then have to leave and wait once again as to not offend you with……doing mechanics…

[Tiramu]

... length snip ...

What to me also doesn't sound right is you saying that over me leaving on the FOURTH try, after actually explaining to them the mechanic they consistently failed on, when there's far worse in the game. People who insult the everliving hell at the 1st run and bail. I'm not one of those, I actually do try to help. I just can't help those who don't want to be helped. And that is not my fault in any way. So stop acting like it is.

My disagreement with you is that they were inconsiderate to you. You found yourself in a blind group, tried to backseat game them, and then wondered why they told you to stop and ignored your strategy. Obviously a blind group isn't going to want that and will ignore your strategy. There is nothing wrong with leaving a group on the understanding that you found yourself in the wrong group - I have no issue with this at all. But there is a world of difference between that and calling them inconsiderate and not willing to listen to advice.

I've been in that situation myself several times in a blind groups where the deal is that if you know the strat to keep stum unless asked, but someone just had to bang on about the strategy and couldn't let it go.

Dont bother, he didn’t read my post either from the beginning or rather read it and decided to get emotional over one situation that happened to him that had nothing to do with what I said.
Nowhere before did I ask or state that I was referring to people doing blind runs. I asked why people don’t read up, and join parties straight up asking “strat?”. What that has to do with running blind I don’t know, unless someone spelling the mechanics for you counts as blind now.

No, I read your post and disagreed with a few points you made, specifically that blind players are unprepared or inconsiderate. Seeing as I was far from the only person to pick up on it, and you felt the need to edit your post, it might be that you err'd in how you put your point across. The example I gave was pointing out that you can spin it both ways and from my experience the guided Ex groups have tended to be the most problematic. It might not be an experience you have shared, but its mine.

FTR, I don't consider players who enter groups and say "strat?" as blind players. But I also don't lump those players in with newbies who are asking for advice or opening the floor to you helping them. Thats pretty standard practice in MSQ content when people are new, and the game does not communicate the step up to extreme particularly well. In this case, judgement is kinda harsh because they aren't going to know how things work.

[einschwartz]

Take Garuda, for instance. Was "The Howling Eye (Hard)" actually significantly harder than just "The Howling Eye"? You just basically can faceroll both these days, after all. Why would a sprout encountering the term "Extreme" for the first time think "The Howling Eye (Extreme)" would be any different a step up from "The Howling Eye (Hard)"?

Moreover, we like to tell sprouts "If you see blue quest markers, always accept those, because they unlock new stuff." So they see a blue quest marker, they click on the blue quest marker, and it tells them "Use the Duty Finder to complete The Howling Eye (Extreme)", just like it's told them "Use the Duty Finder to complete <whatever>" for every previous trial and dungeon.

Why on earth would we expect them to do anything other than try to use the Duty Finder to complete the extreme trial they've just unlocked?

Yeah. The game does a pretty poor job of preparing new players for higher end content. "Go there and do that thing like you have everything else" tends to blindside them more than anything if they try to queue up for Extreme and Savage fights. There's quite a learning curve that most aren't prepared for initially. That isn't the fault of the players. It's faulty game design. The game itself should be way more informative than it is sometimes.

With the recent changes and Duty Support addition to ARR dungeons, players will now get a mandatory pop up that explains what the system is the moment they unlock the first dungeon. Perhaps the same pop-up could be implemented for players first Extreme duty unlock. This would be a perfect slot to properly introduce Party Finder to sprouts.

[NekoMataMata]

People are impatient and I also think that people find watching guides akin to studying for an exam or test. You might need to do it but it's boring and a lot of people don't want to do it.

[Vespar]

I can tell you point blank: watching a video does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for me. I could watch a video 500x it probably wouldnt make a lick of difference to my performance in the actual fight. That doesn't make me stupid, its just the difference between my learning style and someone else's. Not everyone learns the same. Some are hands-on, some are visual, some are verbal, some are able to easily extrapolate from text.
To each their own, what I'd like to see more of is learning parties being more welcoming and less abrasive. If you're all learning then accept that there will be failures, in some cases many! Be patient and at the end of the day we'll all be masters of the fight!

[PharisHanasaki]

Since nobody is reading the original post, probably too long, let me ask you in a shorter and different way:

Why dont you read or watch the strat online if you dont want to do a blind run and instead you ask people to write down the entire strat for you in party finder as soon as you join the party either way, when you could have googled five minutes prior?

Because guides take away from the fun. Imagine getting a new game and watching a playthrough before starting... Makes no sense, right? Also, there's the fact that some guides are so old the strats have changed. I once got MB Ultima Weapon on mentor roulette, and this guy watched a guide and he was making us wipe because he wanted EVERYONE to do as he said. I let him wipe us until he lost it, and finally yielded. Once I explained what to do, we cleared on one go and he apologized.

If you want people waching guides just say so in pf, and kick them if they don't, you warned them. But you can't expect every human being to think the same way as you. I personally like doing content on patch day to avoid people like you, that complain about others not watching guides. For savage, it's a different story.

It's an MMO, you're going to run into different playstyles. You can find like minded people to run content if so you wish, or eat a penalty, that's what it is for.

[Vahlnir]

With the recent changes and Duty Support addition to ARR dungeons, players will now get a mandatory pop up that explains what the system is the moment they unlock the first dungeon. Perhaps the same pop-up could be implemented for players first Extreme duty unlock. This would be a perfect slot to properly introduce Party Finder to sprouts.

I think this would be an excellent QoL change.

[Midareyukki]

People are impatient and I also think that people find watching guides akin to studying for an exam or test. You might need to do it but it's boring and a lot of people don't want to do it.

Then you fail the exam, so stop whining when the kids who did study got a better grade than you and don't want you around their group sessions to distract them.

[DixieBellOCE]

Since nobody is reading the original post, probably too long, let me ask you in a shorter and different way:

Why dont you read or watch the strat online if you dont want to do a blind run and instead you ask people to write down the entire strat for you in party finder as soon as you join the party either way, when you could have googled five minutes prior?

Excuses from people saying that they like to do blind runs go straight out of the window when the first thing they do as they join the party is ask for the strat.

That’s not blind. Thats reading the strat in that chat box vs a google page.
If you want blind then join and say you want a blind run. Dont join and ask people to write you the strat.

Edit again: I do stay and help people until the end as a mentor, Ill even requeue with them if they couldn’t complete, and I will guide as much as possible whenever there are mistakes, that wasn’t even the question or implication here, but yes, mentor bad.

Yes this is in duty finder but if you want to talk about pf too thats fine with me.

I'm going to get flamed for this:

I queue into DF on day 1 on JP servers and learn the fight alongside everyone else.
People rip into me saying i should 'know the fight' before using DF, but day 1, nobody knows the fight, its a learning experience and the most fun part of new content.

1 week in or more and its basically expected that you watch a guide, or join a 'blind prog' party finder.

By that time everyone that actually cares about blind prog is mostly done with the content

[HanWenqing]

I always considered it pathetic to look at a guide before fighting a boss...
Are you that afraid of defeat?
Are you afraid to learn by yourself and to think?

Of course when I create a pf I specify each time that it is a training when I am alone but when I am with friends it is much better.

Try to have a team of friends to play with, it's better than anything to progress by thinking together to defeat the boss.