Why is it so common to join extremes without watching a guide first?

[Tiramu]

I got Final Fantasy 7, 8, and 9 when they were released and had the physical guide for each of them, the guides were out at the same time the game was new. I also have my original Chrono Trigger and Earthbound guides. (Earthbound even came with the guide) And through a large portion of the 90s we just went to the library and printed out the 200 page Gamefaq guides with the giant ASCII art. And even in the NES days we picked up Nintendo Power if we got stuck in something. The original FF1 on NES and maybe FF4/"FF2" here in NA were the only FF games I can think of where you might not have had easy access to resources outside of Nintendo Power. But as of the PS1 days we had easy ways to look at guides online and it's not like NA players were playing any of the older FF titles outside 1, 4 and 6 as we didn't even get the others until the PS1 ports with the horrendous load times. The only gamers that were living through the dark ages with no help were people playing stuff like Sierra games and Myst/Riven haha

I used guides in the olden days and still use them now. But I also do savage+ultimate and if anyone has made any sort of guide or toolbox for those you better believe I'm looking at them, even when week 1 raiding.

Not to tell you how to play your games, that is not my intention. You should play as you wish. But doesn't this sound a little like guides have become a bit of a crutch? Isn't it more enjoyable to at least try to complete content without a guide than needing them before even attempting the content.

Well the 30m+ queue time should clue them off that it's not something you can wing it and clear the first time while actually blindfolded.

Thats not always the case though, while not an extreme Odin is often treat like one and has a long wait time. I tried DF'ing it before I knew how to use PF, not for 30 mins but I gave it a chance. I didn't get a roll on it, and kinda left it to the side. Then one day I was doing roulettes and rolled Odin and we cleared it. Sometimes people just randomly get lucky (or unlucky) with trials that are usually reserved for PF groups.

Not really, no.

Take Garuda, for instance. Was "The Howling Eye (Hard)" actually significantly harder than just "The Howling Eye"? You just basically can faceroll both these days, after all. Why would a sprout encountering the term "Extreme" for the first time think "The Howling Eye (Extreme)" would be any different a step up from "The Howling Eye (Hard)"?

Moreover, we like to tell sprouts "If you see blue quest markers, always accept those, because they unlock new stuff." So they see a blue quest marker, they click on the blue quest marker, and it tells them "Use the Duty Finder to complete The Howling Eye (Extreme)", just like it's told them "Use the Duty Finder to complete <whatever>" for every previous trial and dungeon.

Why on earth would we expect them to do anything other than try to use the Duty Finder to complete the extreme trial they've just unlocked?

I agree with this too. This is an issue with messaging, and I find it hard to believe most players haven't done exactly this, or wandered into an extreme utterly unprepared unless they were explicitly told not to undertake them until they are ready in their FC or whatever.

[Seera1024]

Not to tell you how to play your games, that is not my intention. You should play as you wish. But doesn't this sound a little like guides have become a bit of a crutch? Isn't it more enjoyable to at least try to complete content without a guide than needing them before even attempting the content.

Some people need that crutch. Just like a person with a bad leg needing a crutch to get around.

Especially before Duty Support and Trusts were added, some people don't want to be the cause of something taking forever to complete because they can't pick up a mechanic. Watching a guide gives them at least an exposure to the mechanics so that maybe they can progress quicker to getting the mechanic and surviving.

Also gives a color blind person a heads up on if there is going to be a mechanic where they will have a problem with a particular dungeon, raid, or trial or not. That way they can give the healer a heads up that they will need to rescue/raise/heal them as they can't see the safe spot.

[Tiramu]

Some people need that crutch. Just like a person with a bad leg needing a crutch to get around.

Especially before Duty Support and Trusts were added, some people don't want to be the cause of something taking forever to complete because they can't pick up a mechanic. Watching a guide gives them at least an exposure to the mechanics so that maybe they can progress quicker to getting the mechanic and surviving.

Also gives a color blind person a heads up on if there is going to be a mechanic where they will have a problem with a particular dungeon, raid, or trial or not. That way they can give the healer a heads up that they will need to rescue/raise/heal them as they can't see the safe spot.

I was talking more an emotional type of crutch, of course disabilities are another thing entirely. But from what they said, I didn't get the impression it was that.

[Seera1024]

I was talking more an emotional type of crutch, of course disabilities are another thing entirely. But from what they said, I didn't get the impression it was that.

That's what I was referring to with the metaphor. Some people do need the crutch of a guide in order for the game to be fun, even if a disability isn't the cause of it.

Uh... You know, you had me at the first half... but no. No, if we're wiping this much in content and people still haven't grasped that they need to be mindful of other peoples' time, then I'm not the one at fault for not asking. Wiping 3 times warrants an explanation, because I'm not sitting around to explain one more thing if you're not going to get it. And guess what: they didn't get it! At that point it's frankly just being disrespectful.

It's not about being kind or following any code of ethics at that point. It's sheer common sense.

And your response to it may have killed the fun for those members by telling them the answer. And you don't tend to put forth as much effort into something that you're not having fun with when it comes to entertainment.

If you had asked if someone had wanted a tip for what to look out for for the mechanic that is getting a lot of players, you may have had more people biting and listening to your response.

[Tiramu]

That's what I was referring to with the metaphor. Some people do need the crutch of a guide in order for the game to be fun, even if a disability isn't the cause of it.



And your response to it may have killed the fun for those members by telling them the answer. And you don't tend to put forth as much effort into something that you're not having fun with when it comes to entertainment.

If you had asked if someone had wanted a tip for what to look out for for the mechanic that is getting a lot of players, you may have had more people biting and listening to your response.

I get you, and thats fine. I'm just the "at least give it a good shot first" type and dont get it.

[angienessyo]

Not to tell you how to play your games, that is not my intention. You should play as you wish. But doesn't this sound a little like guides have become a bit of a crutch? Isn't it more enjoyable to at least try to complete content without a guide than needing them before even attempting the content.

Considering I do the EX trials, ultimates, and savage tiers on release I get plenty of experience doing things without guides. But if a guide exists I will use it and it hasn't made me a bad player to use one. The main reason I use them is because I'm a slow learner and the way I learn things is different than most my friends. (this isn't just a videogame thing, it's an issue in all aspects of my life) The guides cut out frustration on my end because I have visuals to give context to mechanics so I'm able to understand them better than doing the fight once blind then sitting and listening to a friend quickly explain everything and it just goes in one ear out the other. If I can avoid the frustration of feeling stupid because everyone around me learns faster than me and everyone else is able to learn just by sitting and listening to the raid leader quickly explain something without any images or context, I'll take it.