Why is it so common to join extremes without watching a guide first?

[Renalt]

Looks like bait.

[SassyAssassin]

Looks like bait.

Everything I dont agree with is bait ~ Freud’s mom

[Renalt]

Everything I dont agree with is bait ~ Freud’s mom

you do you buddy.

[Midareyukki]

I just like not wasting the time of the other 7 people, nor my own. What's it to anyone if I watch a guide or not? And if I don't want to play with people who are going in unprepared like that, I don't have to be in the same group as them.

This just reminds me of this one time I was in Seat of Sacrifice Normal. We wiped 3 times, people weren't getting the mechanics. I told them at least what the fire/ice mechanic did. All I said was "When he casts this, it does this, when he casts that, it does that". Nothing major. I was told to calm down (???) and that the group wanted to go into the fight and figure things out themselves.

...Alright then?

We wiped one more time despite this time knowing what Fire/Ice swords did, so I just quietly left the instance. That sort of playstyle already isn't for me, and if people refuse to prepare themselves with randoms or take advice, it's really not for me.

I really don't care if it's a crutch or not. It's a videogame, I have nothing to prove. I just want to have fun.

[Seera1024]

I just like not wasting the time of the other 7 people, nor my own. What's it to anyone if I watch a guide or not? And if I don't want to play with people who are going in unprepared like that, I don't have to be in the same group as them.

This just reminds me of this one time I was in Seat of Sacrifice Normal. We wiped 3 times, people weren't getting the mechanics. I told them at least what the fire/ice mechanic did. All I said was "When he casts this, it does this, when he casts that, it does that". Nothing major. I was told to calm down (???) and that the group wanted to go into the fight and figure things out themselves.

...Alright then?

We wiped one more time despite this time knowing what Fire/Ice swords did, so I just quietly left the instance. That sort of playstyle already isn't for me, and if people refuse to prepare themselves with randoms or take advice, it's really not for me.

I really don't care if it's a crutch or not. It's a videogame, I have nothing to prove. I just want to have fun.

And for some, figuring things out on their own is the fun part of the game.

When you queue up for something via duty roulette you agree to compromise on how things go. So if most want to go in blind, then well, that's what you agreed to deal with.

If people are having issues with mechanics maybe try asking: does anybody want any tips on any of the mechanics? Or if they wanted any help on figuring out what to look for if they want to figure out how to solve it on their own if you know the mechanic. Kind of like how a parent helping a kid with homework wouldn't tell them the answer, but guide them to it.

[Tiramu]

I just like not wasting the time of the other 7 people, nor my own. What's it to anyone if I watch a guide or not? And if I don't want to play with people who are going in unprepared like that, I don't have to be in the same group as them.

This just reminds me of this one time I was in Seat of Sacrifice Normal. We wiped 3 times, people weren't getting the mechanics. I told them at least what the fire/ice mechanic did. All I said was "When he casts this, it does this, when he casts that, it does that". Nothing major. I was told to calm down (???) and that the group wanted to go into the fight and figure things out themselves.

...Alright then?

We wiped one more time despite this time knowing what Fire/Ice swords did, so I just quietly left the instance. That sort of playstyle already isn't for me, and if people refuse to prepare themselves with randoms or take advice, it's really not for me.

I really don't care if it's a crutch or not. It's a videogame, I have nothing to prove. I just want to have fun.

No, nobody expects you to not read a guide. The thing some people take exception to are being called "unprepared" for not wanting to read a guide. They aren't wasting your time, just make groups where everyone is guided. People like to play blind because a lot of the time a guide will remove most if not all of the challenge from a battle. I'm not a hardcore blind player, if I come to a total loss as to what to do I will check a guide; and there have been plenty of times where I've done that and a battle has gone from being hard to being a breeze because the challenge was to figure out what you're supposed to do... actually doing that thing is easy, which makes the battle easy.

OFC, if you want your content to be easy thats fine, but calling players who want to be challenged unprepared is so far off base its unreal.

[Kaurhz]

It depends.

If you do it via PF where there is an explicit mutual agreement in people watching a guide, or reviewing resources beforehand -- and they elect to ignore this 'agreement' then it is inconsiderate.

I don't necessarily think you can apply the same to Duty Finder, however, when the individuals are so diverse with no real agreement/arrangement or expectancy specified beforehand. As some people will prefer to do it blindly, guides are nice, but ultimately first-hand experience will always trump that. Realistically, by using DF over PF in this regard, this is what you subject yourself to, and sign up for.

Equally, if this is a mentor thing, then that's an entirely different beast, but in reality the same still does apply. If someone asks for an outline of the strat and doesn't necessarily follow the aforementioned advice then that can just as easily be attributed to learning the pacing and the flow, in addition to mistakes, versus outright ignoring the advice.

[Deveryn]

Work smarter, not harder. Someone went to the trouble to try and educate me... I'm going to take that lesson and apply it, so I can be a pro sooner rather than later.

[Midareyukki]

And for some, figuring things out on their own is the fun part of the game.

When you queue up for something via duty roulette you agree to compromise on how things go. So if most want to go in blind, then well, that's what you agreed to deal with.

If people are having issues with mechanics maybe try asking: does anybody want any tips on any of the mechanics? Or if they wanted any help on figuring out what to look for if they want to figure out how to solve it on their own if you know the mechanic. Kind of like how a parent helping a kid with homework wouldn't tell them the answer, but guide them to it.

Uh... You know, you had me at the first half... but no. No, if we're wiping this much in content and people still haven't grasped that they need to be mindful of other peoples' time, then I'm not the one at fault for not asking. Wiping 3 times warrants an explanation, because I'm not sitting around to explain one more thing if you're not going to get it. And guess what: they didn't get it! At that point it's frankly just being disrespectful.

It's not about being kind or following any code of ethics at that point. It's sheer common sense.

Work smarter, not harder. Someone went to the trouble to try and educate me... I'm going to take that lesson and apply it, so I can be a pro sooner rather than later.

This :T

Like, even if you don't want to be a pro, which I don't even expect you to be, if someone's telling you what to do and you're clearly not getting it, take the L and learn. Don't give the person lip, and don't ignore them right after. Because at that point, no, it doesn't matter if you want to go in and learn slowly, you lost all reason and that person doesn't need to deal with your entitled arse any further. They gave you a chance: learn or leave. You don't choose to learn and improve, they don't have to deal with you.

I didn't subscribe to anything past minimal common courtesy.

[Tiramu]

Uh... You know, you had me at the first half... but no. No, if we're wiping this much in content and people still haven't grasped that they need to be mindful of other peoples' time, then I'm not the one at fault for not asking. Wiping 3 times warrants an explanation, because I'm not sitting around to explain one more thing if you're not going to get it. And guess what: they didn't get it! At that point it's frankly just being disrespectful.

It's not about being kind or following any code of ethics at that point. It's sheer common sense.



This :T

Like, even if you don't want to be a pro, which I don't even expect you to be, if someone's telling you what to do and you're clearly not getting it, take the L and learn. Don't give the person lip, and don't ignore them right after. Because at that point, no, it doesn't matter if you want to go in and learn slowly, you lost all reason and that person doesn't need to deal with your entitled arse any further. They gave you a chance: learn or leave. You don't choose to learn and improve, they don't have to deal with you.

I didn't subscribe to anything past minimal common courtesy.

Maybe you should read this back and think about what you're saying here.

Jumping in with a strategy when people want to figure stuff out for themselves isn't courteous. You could have simply asked whether they wanted help, and let them answer; then if the group isn't compatible with you then accept that you're not suited to that style of play and politely decline. If 3 wipes is just too much for you, then that sounds very impatient.

Going on about being a pro player. I dunno. Like I said before, guides make a big difference to content difficulty, and can take challenging content down to being super easy. So acting like pros read guides and get it right away doesn't sound right to me.