Why is it so common to join extremes without watching a guide first?

[ChameleonMS]

That comes with the territory.
Only masochists use Mentor roulette.

<---- A masochist. 800+ MRs complete and slowly inching towards that mount.

Suffice to say, it’s ridiculous that Square Enix has not seen the writing on the wall and removed Extreme trials from Duty Finder. While this might be common practice in Japan, it’s jarring and offensive for others to encounter such fragrant disregard for our culture.

The ratio of EX trials is not too bad. Generally about 10% MRs result in an EX trial.

NA adjust

I wrote out a bunch of macros with all the instructions for several of them to save myself time explaining the fight.

To satisfy the blind people, I only ask, does anyone need instructions? When I get a yes, I post them.

[Pyro2hell3]

I mean i constantly get people in "duty complete" parties that repeatedly fail the exact same mechanic the exact same way wiping the party every time then being the first person to leave because party is "bad"

[Deveryn]

I mean i constantly get people in "duty complete" parties that repeatedly fail the exact same mechanic the exact same way wiping the party every time then being the first person to leave because party is "bad"

I'm losing count of how many duty completes I've done for Barb where the DPS stacks with me (healing) on my cardinal point.

[SassyAssassin]

FTR, I don't consider players who enter groups and say "strat?" as blind players. But I also don't lump those players in with newbies who are asking for advice or opening the floor to you helping them. Thats pretty standard practice in MSQ content when people are new, and the game does not communicate the step up to extreme particularly well. In this case, judgement is kinda harsh because they aren't going to know how things work.

Oh boy look, let me clear it up by saying first and foremost that YOU or players like you are NOT the people Im talking about alright?

Not once did I say newbies or people wanting to learn are in the the same pot, I don’t know where you got that from when I specified multiple times that I have no problem and like explaining and helping people that need and want to improve and I even rejoin them if needed. So be a bit less emotional and actually READ, because you end up being the one judging without knowing and taking everything out of context.

Doing over 900 mentor roulettes I encountered a lot of different people and the ones I am complaining about are rare and the type that are very clearly not new, not sprouts and are looking for a very easy carry and clear without giving a raisin. They join, they know there has to be a strat and directly ask you to write it down so they can give it a short look because they couldn’t bother looking it up themselves and were most likely arrogant enough to believe they don’t need to, and not because they want a blind run to “have fun”.

You tell them, they ignore you, you res them but they sit dead on the ground for minutes until you have to waste your mana on them AGAIN, while everyone else is actually struggling to learn and burn the boss down. You mention the mechanics again, they ignore again, start attacking before you’re even done explaining after they legit joined the party and asked for strat.

I understand you had a bad experience but dont mirror whatever happened to you on me and what I was asking, because obviously I don’t know what really happened there but from what you said there is a 99% that I would have been on your side.

So stop taking offense or assuming you know how I do duties when we haven’t ever done a duty together. Breathe, its not an attack against you or new people or people that want to learn.

[Gemina]

Typical foray into an EX trial for me goes something like this:

Beginning stage - Totem count 0-5: Study a guide extensively, fail all mechanics anyway. Very likely will wipe the raid.
Intermediate stage - Totem count 6-10: Understand most mechanics at this point, but still cleaning up. Less likely to wipe raid, but still a high possibility.
Damage Dorito stage - Totem count 11+: At this point, I am capable of teaching the fight to others as I have a full understanding of all the mechanics. I can still make mistakes, but am more likely to die to someone else's error. I will also allow myself to start rolling for any dropped mounts at this point. I don't roll on mounts during the learning/clean up stages.

Guides helped my awareness level of the mechanics. But I need to participate in the encounter in order to break it down. I will never learn an unknown mechanic through a guide, or by being told where to go. I would much rather rely on my own reaction to the mechanic, than someone else's. This helps to ensure that I still don't get clipped by the damage anyway.

In short, the guides aren't needed. The majority of the learning takes place inside the encounter regardless.

[ReynTime]

Typical foray into an EX trial for me goes something like this:

Beginning stage - Totem count 0-5: Study a guide extensively, fail all mechanics anyway. Very likely will wipe the raid.
Intermediate stage - Totem count 6-10: Understand most mechanics at this point, but still cleaning up. Less likely to wipe raid, but still a high possibility.
Damage Dorito stage - Totem count 11+: At this point, I am capable of teaching the fight to others as I have a full understanding of all the mechanics. I can still make mistakes, but am more likely to die to someone else's error. I will also allow myself to start rolling for any dropped mounts at this point. I don't roll on mounts during the learning/clean up stages.

Guides helped my awareness level of the mechanics. But I need to participate in the encounter in order to break it down. I will never learn an unknown mechanic through a guide, or by being told where to go. I would much rather rely on my own reaction to the mechanic, than someone else's. This helps to ensure that I still don't get clipped by the damage anyway.

In short, the guides aren't needed. The majority of the learning takes place inside the encounter regardless.

That's because any well designed game teaches you through the experience of the challenge. The idea that players should be expected to watch guides or it's "griefing" is one of the dumbest things I've ever read in gaming communities. That's like admitting one thinks the fights are poorly designed. But even the harder fights in the game are designed to be learned.

[SassyAssassin]

This pretty much sums up how I felt when I got extreme fights in Mentor Roulette. It's not that I didn't want to help or mentor (I was there to do just that, after all); it just made no sense whatsoever to ask for the strat and not make an effort to look for it yourself. This just reeks of laziness (or maybe ignorance, in which case the mentor has the right to tell the person the proper way these fights should be approached without being accused of not wanting to "do their job"). If we all go into the fight prepared, we spend the 60 minutes learning and trying to beat the fight instead of wasting time explaining. If you want to prog blind, I respect that and am willing to stick around for it if you really try your best to learn the mechanics. But before queuing, can you guarantee that everyone else in the random DF party you get also wants the same thing? I think not.

Sigh, all those people in the comments coming at you without even reading or understanding the point you were making shows they just want to have a swing at mentors whenever they see an opportunity (whether the opportunity is actually there or not) -.-

THANK YOU.

[Wolwosh]

When I try to explain after 2 wipes most of the time the sprout Tank already pulled, even after asking for a moment to explain.
So I stopped doing it and leave after 3 wipes when its clear its not going anywhere, i'm a mentor not a martir

[LianaThorne]

I go into everything blind for the first time because I enjoy it. Plain and simple. I make people aware that I am going in blind and have never experienced anything other than "Okay" or "Oh, same!". I don't expect to be carried and if I die, I try to work out how to fix it or ask questions. If I'm still struggling, then I turn to a guide.

I'd at least like a chance to figure it out for myself before having my hand held by someone else. Not sure when going in blind for first experience became a bad thing but this is a bit sad.

If ya'll are in a rush to do things right, find or put together a group that plays to your expectations. If you're doing mentor roulette... well you're choosing to do mentor roulette...if it's an issue that new people will often go in without knowledge, then don't do mentor roulette. XD All you can do is control what you do, not anyone else.

[Iyrnthota]

I go into everything blind for the first time because I enjoy it. Plain and simple. I don't expect to be carried and if I die, I try to work out how to fix it or ask questions. If I'm still struggling, then I turn to a guide.

I'd at least like a chance to figure it out for myself before having my hand held by someone else. Not sure when going in blind for first experience became a bad thing but this is a bit sad.

Going in blind is perfectly fine, but it's about expectations.
I wouldn't join a EX Prog PF blind if it clearly stated "please watch a guide", for example.

The OP was initially about people who go in blind, claim they want to prog it blind, but immediately ask for someone to explain all the strats to them.
At that point you aren't actually going in blind nor do you want to, you're just wasting everyone's time. Watch a guide.