Why is it so common to join extremes without watching a guide first?

[Packetdancer]

I'm familiar with clock spot waymarks. This particular player placed four in a line on the side of the room the group starts in, and after having done the fight, I'm 99% certain he was trying to get puddle pairs assigned.

If I'm doing full party content blind -- and like, actually seriously trying to progress -- if I'm the one running it, I will often have us pick clock spots and role buddies. I may not know what mechanic will use them -- or if any mechanic will -- but they're things you need often enough that I tend to think it's good to have them.

I admit I'd usually put the four markers in a little square (two in front, two behind) just because when you need buddies it's usually paired with quadrants of some form, but I've seen people pick role buddies with four-in-a-row before as well. (Usually when they aren't yet sure where the pull line is so don't want to put any markers too far forward, or if you need a spread order as well.)

Don't get me wrong, I understand your concerns; I have said before I find it incredibly frustrating that party finder will tolerate blind runs for about six hours after content releases, and then 98% of PF becomes "WATCH VIDEO MUST KNOW FIGHT". Someone who came into a blind prog party and started trying to explain mechanics would absolutely irritate me; as you noted, you do only get one shot at a blind run, because you can't unlearn mechanics people teach you.

(I mean, okay, you can, but not usually deliberately...)

I'm just not sure I would've read laying out waymarks as a deliberate spoiler of mechanics, especially because if I'm doing blind prog seriously -- not the "okay first pull blind 3 2 1 YOLO!" type thing preceding "okay, now let's get the mechanics explained" runs -- I'm likely to go "Okay, let's figure out clock spots and role buddies just in case." and throw down waymarks.

I'd rather have those squared away and not need them than get to a point where we need them, wipe, and then have to scramble before the next pull.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ameela]

Am I the only one who has a really good memory for these old extreme fights? Like it's a thing you study and memorize until you clear so it kinda gets ingrained in your mind even if years down the line some of the details are fuzzy.
Like it's been 6 years since I've done Garuda EX but I still remember that Suprana buffs Garuda's HP while Chirada buffs Suprana's HP so the off tank has to grab it and tank it far away and you gotta tank swap the Spiny Plume or it wipes the raid (would this even be possible nowadays without Flash?) and that's basically all the major mechanics in that fight.
Same with Ramuh - tank swap after 3 orb stacks, if you get tethered grab 3 orbs also and kill adds without staying in the water too long.
Some of these old fights are quite deceptively simple, we've come a long way since then with stuff like Zodiark twisting the arena and forcing you to figure out where things will end up on the fly.

[Midareyukki]

Am I the only one who has a really good memory for these old extreme fights? Like it's a thing you study and memorize until you clear so it kinda gets ingrained in your mind even if years down the line some of the details are fuzzy.
Like it's been 6 years since I've done Garuda EX but I still remember that Suprana buffs Garuda's HP while Chirada buffs Suprana's HP so the off tank has to grab it and tank it far away and you gotta tank swap the Spiny Plume or it wipes the raid (would this even be possible nowadays without Flash?) and that's basically all the major mechanics in that fight.
Same with Ramuh - tank swap after 3 orb stacks, if you get tethered grab 3 orbs also and kill adds without staying in the water too long.
Some of these old fights are quite deceptively simple, we've come a long way since then with stuff like Zodiark twisting the arena and forcing you to figure out where things will end up on the fly.

If I don't do the thing multiple times to actually ingrain it, no amount of study will actually commit it for me in the long run like that :x

It might work at the time, because information is nice and fresh. But once that's done, odds are I'm going to forget it. Like, I still remember some stuff about E11S, but if you were to ask me about it, I'd likely stumble all throughout.

[Deveryn]

Am I the only one who has a really good memory for these old extreme fights? Like it's a thing you study and memorize until you clear so it kinda gets ingrained in your mind even if years down the line some of the details are fuzzy.
Like it's been 6 years since I've done Garuda EX but I still remember that Suprana buffs Garuda's HP while Chirada buffs Suprana's HP so the off tank has to grab it and tank it far away and you gotta tank swap the Spiny Plume or it wipes the raid (would this even be possible nowadays without Flash?) and that's basically all the major mechanics in that fight.
Same with Ramuh - tank swap after 3 orb stacks, if you get tethered grab 3 orbs also and kill adds without staying in the water too long.
Some of these old fights are quite deceptively simple, we've come a long way since then with stuff like Zodiark twisting the arena and forcing you to figure out where things will end up on the fly.

I'm good with stuff like that too. If I do a fight enough, it's learned. If I'm unsure of something, I start to remember along the way. Memoria is the only fight I can think of where I had to go back and read things over, as I wasn't running it consistently.

[UkcsAlias]

Am I the only one who has a really good memory for these old extreme fights? Like it's a thing you study and memorize until you clear so it kinda gets ingrained in your mind even if years down the line some of the details are fuzzy.

Compared to normal dungeons, you are suddently stuck at a boss fight for a lot longer. And this makes you learn the mechanics in a far better way. Even if you forget some details, your memory is generaly good at resolving this whenever a mistake is made.

To me there were only 2 expert experiences:
- Either its easily finished in 1 go
- Or there are a lot of wipes (giving a lot of bonusses), where the players slowly learn the mechanics and optimize.

For me the 2nd experience is generaly better as it actualy makes me learn. For all those first ones i basicly already forgot what was going on as its only a few minutes compared to easily being stuck on the boss for half an hour. And especialy since most ARR content is rather dull, that 2nd experience at least allows me to push it a bit trying to cover up for my teammates.

[Avoidy]

Am I the only one who has a really good memory for these old extreme fights? Like it's a thing you study and memorize until you clear so it kinda gets ingrained in your mind even if years down the line some of the details are fuzzy.
Like it's been 6 years since I've done Garuda EX but I still remember that Suprana buffs Garuda's HP while Chirada buffs Suprana's HP so the off tank has to grab it and tank it far away and you gotta tank swap the Spiny Plume or it wipes the raid (would this even be possible nowadays without Flash?) and that's basically all the major mechanics in that fight.
Same with Ramuh - tank swap after 3 orb stacks, if you get tethered grab 3 orbs also and kill adds without staying in the water too long.
Some of these old fights are quite deceptively simple, we've come a long way since then with stuff like Zodiark twisting the arena and forcing you to figure out where things will end up on the fly.

I'm good with fights I've farmed, but if I got some ARR EX trial that I never bothered unsyncing because I joined 6 years after it released, then it'd obviously be a bit different. If I ever unlocked Mentor roulette, I probably wouldn't even queue it until I reviewed all those old-ass fights that I've only ever unsynced.
Err, this is of course outside of the scope of this thread. I'm saying I'd look up a guide if I queued in as a mentor, mainly so I could help new people to it. If someone else who's genuinely new/blind wants to experience it blind that's obviously on them. All of this is ultimately why I couldn't care less for mentor roulette though. Didn't renew my crown, didn't bother unlocking the roulette, don't even like the mount.

[Carin-Eri]

Mixed feelings here.

I mean, I've watched numerous guides throughout my (limited) time playing FFXIV. Sadly, I don't generally remember much of what I saw in the guide when I'm 'on the spot'. I guess I learn more through actually doing - although still make daft mistakes even then.

[Vahlnir]

Mixed feelings here.

I mean, I've watched numerous guides throughout my (limited) time playing FFXIV. Sadly, I don't generally remember much of what I saw in the guide when I'm 'on the spot'. I guess I learn more through actually doing - although still make daft mistakes even then.

Guides only provide a rough draft of what to expect. Actually performing the required mechanics is another thing entirely. So yeah, guides help, and I would always suggest watching one for an Extreme or Savage boss, but the true learning comes from actively doing a fight. You can't really account for human error in a guide either, and there's plenty of that to go around. It is also extremely difficult to get every party member on the same page because everyone learns at a different pace.

[caffe_macchiato]

[I]Why dont you read or watch the strat online if you dont want to do a blind run

You’re ultimately correct, but you have to understand that the game is very self-contradictory on the issue of hard content. The MSQ is very easy and Square Enix holds your hand throughout every encounter. A brand new player might then unlock the extreme thinking that he or she can go in just like the normal version of the trial. There’s nothing telling that person that what he or she is doing is wrong.

Ultimately, we the community have decided to bar raiding to a separate and exclusive sub-category of FFXIV, much like ardent fans of Rival Wings. You have to be “in the know” to get in to that higher echelon of player-ship. Think of raiding in FFXIV as getting access to a speakeasy or secret society. We use our own special coded language (Mario Kart, PlayStation Colors, etc.). You need to watch the approved guides, mostly by MrHappy or Misteek. You need to have a Discord, or be in THE Discords for recruitment. You need to have your BiS from The Balance Discord.

This is antithesis to your mentor roulette. You’re not MrHappy, you don’t have the Mario Kart PlayStation meme (The Rock version) on-hand, you can’t adjust everyone’s BiS. Why are you involved? Why does this roulette even exist?

Suffice to say, it’s ridiculous that Square Enix has not seen the writing on the wall and removed Extreme trials from Duty Finder. While this might be common practice in Japan, it’s jarring and offensive for others to encounter such fragrant disregard for our culture.

[Deveryn]

Suffice to say, it’s ridiculous that Square Enix has not seen the writing on the wall and removed Extreme trials from Duty Finder. While this might be common practice in Japan, it’s jarring and offensive for others to encounter such fragrant disregard for our culture.

NA adjust