"Balance team tests the fights themseslves"

[Bukachu]

Right so as we know Balance team tests fight themselves before release right?

but is there an actual confirmation of this? like recording or stream or anything of the sort that proves that or is it just "hehe you gotta believe us"?

Because looking at current tier and some comps, I dont believe p8s was tested/cleared with most classes

[zabu]

Nothing is going to be "perfect" balance in a game. Additionally, skill level of average player is really low, trapping is literally all over the place even with extra piece of gear, but SE can not say that either, so they end up with blame themselves

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

while i wont disagree with this, my fc on primal has an ultimate legends raider group that has been together for years and they cleared p8s on monday last week only after swapping some classes. so it is not just a player skill issue in some cases.

You can clear ultimate without actually being amazing.

They are long fights, and they require skill, but they are not exponentially harder, from my experience.

Mechanics come out faster, sure. But I was starting to zone out doing weapons refrains first two phases, they had basically become muscle memory.

I've seen plenty of ultimate raiders fail basic mechanics in older fights.

[yoshinoharu]

Right so as we know Balance team tests fight themselves before release right?

but is there an actual confirmation of this? like recording or stream or anything of the sort that proves that or is it just "hehe you gotta believe us"?

Because looking at current tier and some comps, I dont believe p8s was tested/cleared with most classes

You know, this is a good point. If the dev-test team is so good I hereby challenge them to, using only pentamelded Rinascita gear, oneshot P8S with a team comprised of prebuff PLD, WAR, RPR, BRD, MCH, RDM, AST, and SGE specifically and see just how well they do, as this is a valid comp with one of every role and no repeats =)

[Jeeqbit]

Like anyone else, I imagine they have their jobs that they are used to playing.

The only video evidence we have is Yoshi-P has streamed himself clearing the savage floors on BLM when he's had time.

[Gemina]

Because the alternative would be to not test at all and just throw it at the playerbase then say, "Good luck everyone!"?

Does this question only come up when clears aren't happening, or a nerf is placed on content? Genuinely curious.

[Bukachu]

Because the alternative would be to not test at all and just throw it at the playerbase then say, "Good luck everyone!"?

Does this question only come up when clears aren't happening, or a nerf is placed on content? Genuinely curious.

feels like they went with the alternative this time, or did half-testing hence my question.

[SeiyaSoiya]

I am sure they do extensive testing and don't have any issues clearing the fights
however it really rubs me the wrong way that they pretend as if the dev/tester prog experience is the same as the player prog experience
you cannot and will never convince me that dsr was cleared during testing without the use of dev tools to checkpoint each phase and prog each independently

meanwhile actual players must always go back to phase 2 each wipe.
yes, you didn't need 3rd party tools to clear dsr, you had 1st party tools that are a million times more cheaty and powerful than any 3rd party tool

[Avenger]

I am sure they do extensive testing and don't have any issues clearing the fights
however it really rubs me the wrong way that they pretend as if the dev/tester prog experience is the same as the player prog experience
you cannot and will never convince me that dsr was cleared during testing without the use of dev tools to checkpoint each phase and prog each independently

meanwhile actual players must always go back to phase 2 each wipe.
yes, you didn't need 3rd party tools to clear dsr, you had 1st party tools that are a million times more cheaty and powerful than any 3rd party tool

In one of the producer letters they explained how during testing they use an HP refill mode (refill rather than KO) to avoid having to wipe and restart. This intentionally enables the testing teams to go in blind but learn the fight much faster than regular players would. After they know the fight, the now-expert team confirms that it can be cleared with all the comps in regular player mode at min ilvl and without HP refill. I imagine Yoshi-p (busy as he is) would also use HP refill mode to learn the fights, and would probably clear them with experienced teams (though maybe still at min ilvl for a bit of fun.)

Obviously if they gave this sort of wipe invulnerability to players during progression it would make learning the fights much faster and easier. Players would also probably complain that the fights were too quick and easy to clear.

I think Yoshi-p also explained that the dev/testing teams are good players but not "world class" players, and they're always impressed at how well players optimize the fights (I imagine, without any evidence of course, that they're also grudgingly impressed with players finding and exploiting bugs and unintended behavior, even if it results in major headaches.)