SAM and SMN is doing too much damage and should be nerfed.

[Aikaal]

Rdm was never better in DSR what did I read.
If we speaking damage Smn shit on Rdm in DSR as long as you don't run a 0 buff comp.

And yeah not feeling like beating a dead horse but it's the easiest and most braindead job in the game by a landmile, still fucking stupid that "balance" have to comply to it.

Just gonna say it now that I was always sandbagging and holding ressources, even going as far as casting Jolt II with 100 black & white mana the whole fight and I simply woke during P7 when I poured higher DPS than SMN on my RDM. I don't really value overall DPS for DSR because logging DPS on DSR is an actual meme.

My point is; DSR wasn't a DPS check fight meaning RDM was just better for the raise support during prog. If anything, my first clear we had a death. On the second clear, the Scholar died and had a res sickness during P7.

RDM was pretty similar to RPR where RPR is just not great the whole fight but they can hold all their DPS and nuke P7.

[SaberMaxwell]

While its valid to say that sandbagging damage is a common thing in DSR, especially when both phases of Thordan end up in a place where you and everyone in the party should flat out stop DPS to make sure mit is available, I wouldn't say its as simple as "RDM is better in DSR."

DSR has just as many 8 man vibe checks as you could hope for meaning that outside of very specific mechanics death means wipe. Not that those recovery periods don't exist; my first clear, our DRG died in p3. But nobody can raise fast enough to deal with stray deaths in doth, p3 towers, most of p2's active phases, or God forbid someone die in p7. Special mention to auto enrage in p6 should Hrae kill someone. So raise as a utility is just as weak here as it is in Abyssos; you wouldn't be shocked to hear that it was a healer raise, not my Red Mage raise, that saved the day in my first DSR clear and most of the time by the time my raises were "useful" they couldn't come fast enough to save a run.

I don't know how SMN plays in DSR. I don't know how BLM plays in it either. I can only look at statistics and see that SMN on average did more damage than RDM, with outlying RDM parses surpassing SMN. I think there's debate to be had perhaps, but like you said, the check is lolsy enough that you could play what you wanted with little consequence in DSR.

[Aikaal]

I wouldn't be able to tell for BLM or SMN. My understanding of SMN is they play like NIN. They are cracked in P2 and P5 in DSR due to the insane downtime favoring 1 minute buff windows. Then again, SMN is far behind NIN so if you have a NIN, you'd rather just have a RDM. That's my opinion at least. If your party didn't have a NIN then SMN makes a lot of sense.

BLM looks sorta free. There isn't much movement the entire fight that matter outside of P7 but RDM also have to deal with that.

I would say raise is definitely a good utility in DSR. My clear with the SCH I'm the one who raised at the end of P6. It wasn't like I was gonna DPS while using Manafication to gain 13 white and black mana and afk lol.

[NoxLumina]

I remember a time where SMN wasn't a brain-dead job.
That was fun

[Meowdyj]

At the end of the day there will always be a job that's the most braindead. When they add more complexity to summoner people will start complaining about another job being too easy.

[Fryfor]

I remember a time where SMN wasn't a brain-dead job.
That was fun

Ironically, it was also barely ever played. Same for old Monk. And older Monk. And Stormblood Machinist. Go figure?

Why even pretend like they were ever in a state that wasn't a completely ridiculous mess to play? Did you just mentally block out having to manually position the Carbuncle, ghosting your highest damaging hits, the works? You raided on this job for what, three sets of Eden? God forbid you think these were good aspects!

[Hanayumi]

Mnk is insanely easy desipte what people think, one of the few job you can totally fuck up your rotation, recover, and still do mind boggling damage, so the hells the issue with sam and smn?

[Aikaal]

Mnk is insanely easy desipte what people think, one of the few job you can totally fuck up your rotation, recover, and still do mind boggling damage, so the hells the issue with sam and smn?

Because difficulty is subjective and a lot of people want to see jobs perform less than their main job. There this one meme guy that think RDM is hard. He also only plays RDM so I guess if you only play 1 DPS it would be the hardest one.

But yeah, all job are easy lol. Go figure. One truth is that SMN is significantly more popular so do expect other jobs to get the SMN treatment. People hating on SMN and will eventually crawl back and cry with SMNs.

[Mithron]

Mnk is insanely easy desipte what people think, one of the few job you can totally fuck up your rotation, recover, and still do mind boggling damage, so the hells the issue with sam and smn?

I struggle with MNK because the error for mistakes is quite high and timing your buffs can be pretty challenging, especially if your ping doesn't let you double weave. MNK is infinitely easier now and more accessible than it ever has been for sure, but I still think it's among the most difficult jobs in the game currently.

[Alex1337]

just equalise job raid dps within 4-5% of one another BLM and SAM bottom but top a and nDPS that or bring downtime back.

SMN difficulty isnt comparable to SAM hold ur aetherflow from 1 min to 2min use swiftcast every minute move ifrit to when you actually have time to cast, idk in what world SMN and SAM difficulty are in the same bracket, have you tried RPR? Lol.