The Devs need a much needed thanks!

[Atelier-Bagur]

...okay and?

They apologize for their "mistakes". Sure. And what about the actions they take after their apology? I'm not talking about the times Yoshida said "We apologize for what happened". I'm talking about what they did after. Not everything ended up fine, some stuff are still only band-aided. Besides, as good as the devs are, it doesn't exempt them from being called out on those aspects. Otherwise they wouldn't apologize at all. Maybe you wouldn't have those posts back to back if the dev team had listened to its playerbase. Rather than telling healers to "go play Ultimate".

I mean, Atelier, I told you not even a day ago: It doesn't matter if "other companies" do it worse, if there are stuff that are needed to be pointed out for there to be any improvement, even if we're doing better than others, why wouldn't we? It doesn't exempt them from criticism. What it does is earn them respect and consideration, but it also needs to be reciprocal. If they don't award their fans with respect, why would anyone give them in turn? And some stuff haven't been apologized for in a proper and responsible way. That had nothing to do with "whiners", you really need to let that argument go. Because it always seems that's your only answer to things, when you know by now that the way people end up is either that they learn to respect the devs, or people just turn against them on the spot. It had to do with the way they approached the subject, and then the subsequent reaction. Even if they're better than other devs, they can still trip up, right? Even monkeys fall from trees. And they can take it when we say "yo, you tripped here", right? To me, that's not being disrespectful, that's doing what the devs asked for: they wanted fans to give feedback, even if it meant it was negative. So that the game improves. Or, what, should we only give them positive feedback from here on and never address problems that arise?

again you keep misconstruing my actual arguments, were in my posts did I ever say "only positive criticism"? in fact thats an oxymoron in itself, there's no such thing as "positive" criticism. There's however constructive and valid criticism, and Ive done my fair share of expressing it in some of this game's areas. You and many people here keep acting as if I want everyone to speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil or some such nonsense when that sort of mentality is nonsensical in of itself. I want this game to improve, this game isnt perfect. But I also want for people to chill out with a lot of their takes where they start acting all disingenuous over the game and my issue is that doesnt help the game to grow, that kind of attitude just doesnt solve anything at all.

[Kaurhz]

Snip.

Sure, that being said, this is the whole point. That because - "I made x comment, therefore, I am y", and just using your own example, because someone pushes the agenda that they believe the game is in a good state, or that they disagree with points being made does not inherently mean that they have no criticisms of their own, or equally that they are immune from people giving feedback on the game. This pretty much applies universally. But I think you've already done a fair good job of acknowledging this beforehand in your second paragraph. But equally, are per, these are just chopping at 2 extremes.

The problem with using money as an indicator for a tokenism of appreciation or expression of gratitude is that money is only used in the exchange of goods, and not necessarily as a token of gratitude. To suggest otherwise is a thinly-veiled attempt at trying to shut down forms of gratitude. Money is realistically only giving you the right to consume the game, nothing else - Those 'profits' aren't necessarily going exclusively to the people who develop the content, but rather just allow for an effective business model. But once again, you've highlighted this.

[Stormpeaks]

Keep feeding Silverbane as they keep on trolling to change the subject of this thread, well done

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Keep feeding Silverbane as they keep on trolling to change the subject of this thread, well done

It pretty much follows a set pattern of: shove argument > proven inaccurate > get pedantic and/or; > gets on the high seat of "ignore personal attacks counterargument" > people get tired/confused > "yay I win! next!"

Pretty sure the mods have deleted last few of their exchanges a while ago though. Don't know why people kept fueling them lol. With that much derailment and having very little to add anymore, Idk why that mod didn't just lock the thread for good.

[Ivtrix]

It pretty much follows the pattern: "shove argument > proven inaccurate > get pedantic and/or; > gets on the high seat of "ignore personal attacks counterargument" > people get tired/confused > "yay I win! next!"

Pretty sure the mods have deleted last few of their exchanges a while ago though. Don't know why people kept fueling them lol. With that much derailment and having very little to add anymore, Idk why that mod didn't just lock the thread for good.

threads like this make me really glad that SE doesnt bother with the official forums

[SharMalqir]

Silverbane this kind of response is not helpful or progressing the thread in anyway shape or form if the only thing you have to say is to take sentences out of context and do you're own mental gymnastics in an attempt to bully someone who is legitimately trying to bring or find constructive criticism for the game, then please go find another thread to post in.

this goes for everyone who needs to hear it, the game is by no means terrible but its also by no means the best in the world. things can always improve and the dev's can get feedback that is helpful. saying the game could use improvements is not saying the game is bad or undeserving of praise for what it does well. it just means there are aspects in it that could use more attention in development for the better enjoyment of players and dev's.

[Vahlnir]

It pretty much follows a set pattern of: shove argument > proven inaccurate > get pedantic and/or; > gets on the high seat of "ignore personal attacks counterargument" > people get tired/confused > "yay I win! next!"

Pretty sure the mods have deleted last few of their exchanges a while ago though. Don't know why people kept fueling them lol. With that much derailment and having very little to add anymore, Idk why that mod didn't just lock the thread for good.

Yeah. This is why I avoid engaging with them as much as humanly possible. Life's too short for that crap.

[Striker44]

this goes for everyone who needs to hear it, the game is by no means terrible but its also by no means the best in the world. things can always improve and the dev's can get feedback that is helpful. saying the game could use improvements is not saying the game is bad or undeserving of praise for what it does well. it just means there are aspects in it that could use more attention in development for the better enjoyment of players and dev's.

This is true. The question is - what is the point of a particular thread? There are plenty of threads that are about providing a variety of critiques. This is one of the few particular threads that is about celebrating the (many) things the game does very well. To turn it into attacking the devs or just bad-mouthing everything doesn't belong here. And a lot of people, myself included, already find the game brings us a ton of enjoyment - we recognize that as humans, nothing will ever be perfect, so I'm more than content with how good FFXIV is at the moment.

[Zebraoracle]

This is true. The question is - what is the point of a particular thread? There are plenty of threads that are about providing a variety of critiques. This is one of the few particular threads that is about celebrating the (many) things the game does very well. To turn it into attacking the devs or just bad-mouthing everything doesn't belong here. And a lot of people, myself included, already find the game brings us a ton of enjoyment - we recognize that as humans, nothing will ever be perfect, so I'm more than content with how good FFXIV is at the moment.

Except this thread was completely made in bad faith, with the TC literally disparaging those with an opposite opinion in their original post, and isn't a genuine praise thread, hence why this thread turned into an absolute crapfest. Multiple people have also said this multiple times throughout the thread. People have also said genuine praise threads usually do fine on this board, because the purpose of them isn't to counter negative feedback/attack people who have issues with the game like this one.

[Velvet_Lunarfang]

Why should I thank the devs when they can't get some concepts into this right. First is housing. It's dismal not much try and get yet every other MMO that is out there has gotten housing right upon release. UI needs a rework, graphics need a overhaul. Jobs are never balanced in every expansion. The list goes on. The devs are literally sitting at their desk scratching their heads and can't get these concepts right. Instead they give us a island sanctuary that is so overly boring and lackluster and wants us to be happy. I spit on them for this. How many years have they been working on it and still can't figure any of this out? FFXIV is more of a experiment because it feels like this is their first game and trying to figure out what they want. Tired of all these white knights defending them and this game knowing full well this game is far from perfect