The Devs need a much needed thanks!

[Striker44]

I'm all for praising them when they deserve it, as well as criticizing them when it is needed. To be honest though, it seems like a thread like this pops up every time there's some drama over a recent development decision, so it makes me wonder what the intention is.

To give a reminder that most people playing the game really enjoy it, and acknowledgment that the forum community is the smallest minuscule piece of sand on the beach that is the playerbase? It's more reflective of the popularity of FFXIV than anything else - there's simply so many people loving the game right now that even the few among them who spend their time on the forums are speaking up instead of just letting the ever-present echo chamber of negativity go unchallenged.

[LittleImp]

To give a reminder that most people playing the game really enjoy it, and acknowledgment that the forum community is the smallest minuscule piece of sand on the beach that is the playerbase? It's more reflective of the popularity of FFXIV than anything else - there's simply so many people loving the game right now that even the few among them who spend their time on the forums are speaking up instead of just letting the ever-present echo chamber of negativity go unchallenged.

I wonder if people who were playing WoW when it started to go south posted stuff like this on their boards.

[Vahlnir]

I wonder if people who were playing WoW when it started to go south posted stuff like this on their boards.

They did, yeah. And still do at times despite having hit rock bottom. You would be surprised as to just how willing people are to die on strange hills.

[Supersnow845]

To give a reminder that most people playing the game really enjoy it, and acknowledgment that the forum community is the smallest minuscule piece of sand on the beach that is the playerbase? It's more reflective of the popularity of FFXIV than anything else - there's simply so many people loving the game right now that even the few among them who spend their time on the forums are speaking up instead of just letting the ever-present echo chamber of negativity go unchallenged.

Okay but this is also a place for discussion and feedback, not the dev congratulations echo chamber

Making counter threads whenever controversy happens is just white knighting and helps nobody

[Striker44]

Okay but this is also a place for discussion and feedback, not the dev congratulations echo chamber

Making counter threads whenever controversy happens is just white knighting and helps nobody

Not necessarily. Especially when you consider how some people here consider the simple number of pages a thread has as an indication of how much "support" the initial thought has (rather than acknowledging it could be a thorough discussion with people on both sides). It's not "white knighting" at all to make one post about a topic saying you enjoy it in a forum surrounded by a bunch of other negative posts. Positive feedback is feedback, too. Or is that the plan? Say "this should be about criticism, anybody posting positive things is just a shill" then saying "see there's only negative posts here, the devs are horrible and should change everything they do." There's no honesty there. It might not help the perpetual naysayers to see people posting positive comments, but it does in fact help everyone to show that said naysayers aren't the norm among the wider playerbase.

Frankly, it amuses me to see how the same people will claim there are all of these other sites that are utterly and completely intolerant of any negative comments about the game, just filled with oodles of people praising the devs, and how these forums are the only place where one can post negative comments...and then in the next breath claim that the negative comments from our few dozen or so folks here are somehow massively representative of the wider community and should be taken as the norm.

It's actually quite telling that even with the echo chamber here, the naysayers can't even allow one positive topic to exist without coming in and trying to passively-aggressively disrupt it or take it down. It's sad that people are so negative, they can't even accept other people having fun. That's when it's time to step back, take a break, and realize one might just be taking a game too seriously.

[ameliaw]

It's actually quite telling that even with the echo chamber here, the naysayers can't even allow one positive topic to exist without coming in and trying to passively-aggressively disrupt it or take it down. It's sad that people are so negative, they can't even accept other people having fun. That's when it's time to step back, take a break, and realize one might just be taking a game too seriously.

You do realize that the OP lowkey insults people who are complaining about the balance, right?

[AwesomeJr44]

You do realize that the OP lowkey insults people who are complaining about the balance, right?

No, because they don't bother reading the OP, they just skip to the end and give us the same tired speech about 'toxicity' and 'haters' and that anyone who cares about the game enough to criticize it needs to 'step back and take a break'.

They're the critic police. Nobody's gonna dare say something potentially negative on their watch!

that is the most crazy thing to say. people are enjoying it which is fine but what about the issues that they having? Place it on the fourm. and beside if you think complain is bad then stop play a male miqote then. They never was playable until after a AAR due to people complaining.

Now to the topic. There are so much to unpack. What a lot of this boils down to is not blindly praise anything. Take meta critic on the day after post of ender walker as a good example . You praise when things are good, when things are bad we provide feed back. we don't just make a post to counter something and then try to say that that only 2% don't even know what they are talking about. While as we legit always try to do that but you know what? many people including yourself are the same one to shut down criticism. Take drk and living dead. People actually thought that was the best invul in game and it was planned. I can count how many time that i died because i planned using it and still died because of the healer does not know how it works. After years it finally got fixed after yoshi p said him self that he was not aware that this was an issue.

Yoshi and his team gets a lot of praise no matter what. When another game does bad, game journalist will always reference aar as a example to fix there game. This is a staple for alot. When he was at e3 i think? a lot of people cheered him on because of what he did to 14. We know they can do better, we want them to do better. As it stand they becoming to complacent. Not going to sugar code it. I do understand that yoshi himself is taking another part as helping to develop the new ff entry. We get tired of the same thing and things not being updated. Like apartments, like the characters, housing, glamour, squadrons etc. We bring these things up and guess what? many people will shut that down because they don't want to change. We get tired of them not explaining the changes. As you can see they recently started doing this. if you notice they add systems on top of systems that they never go back to update. Feedback to you is that you need to start asking questions to see why people upset.

The problem is that they don't consider the forums to be for feedback. They don't understand the core fundamental purpose of these forums.

The forums were invented for FEEDBACK, which in many cases is negative. This is not a social media website like Reddit or Twitter where you are meant to shower the dev team with praise for no reason whatsoever. Is it ok to praise the devs when they do well? Of course. I myself gave the dev team credit when 6.2 was better than I expected it to be. However, it is against the very purpose of the forums to attempt to convert the forums into a positive safe space for the devs. It is against the purpose of the forums to make 'positive' threads where you devote half of your OP to attacking people who dare to be 'negative'. The dev team themselves have gone on record saying that they want FEEDBACK on the forums. Feedback is not always praise. When the devs screw up balancing for a raid, the playerbase should hold them accountable so they fix it. Thankfully they have at least given us a solution due to the backlash, even if it wasn't the best solution.

oh God, this is going to turn into a "woke" or "venat" thread isn't it?

idk, the only reason this thread is still alive is because people keep coming in and insulting people with standards by labeling them as 'haters'.

[Kes13a]

idk, the only reason this thread is still alive is because people keep coming in and insulting people with standards by labeling them as 'haters'.

or people coming in and labeling those that enjoy the game as "shills" or "white knights"

the insulting seems to flow quite freely both ways.

[AwesomeJr44]

or people coming in and labeling those that enjoy the game as "shills" or "white knights"

the insulting seems to flow quite freely both ways.

The people who freak out upon seeing critics of the game and resort to screaming at the top of their lungs and calling critics 'haters' are indeed white knights for the game. And considering that even the OP of the thread was one of said white knights, devoting half of their OP to insulting anyone who doesn't kiss SE's boots... if the shoe fits. What's your point?

By the way, people who merely thank SE are not 'white knights', don't take that as me saying as much. I think they could raise their standards for praise a bit, but they are not white knights. The white knights are specifically the people trying to silence critics of the game by labeling them as haters who should be ignored. (Example: Silverbane)

This is an example of a white knight:

Despite this last week and the amount of flak that they received, they work extremely hard to bring us a game that is much loved and enjoyed. The amount of hate I have seen this past week because a class can't do 1% more damage is absurd in the slightest, but then again that is only less than 2% of the community most likely complaining. Those that are complaining are the ones that have zero ideal what they are talking about and are only outcrying what their favorite streamer is telling them to outcry.

This is not praising the devs. It's taking shots at people who don't shower the devs with praise even when they mess up. They are trying to minimize valid concerns to make the game seem better than it actually is.

Oh wow, they patched new lines into your script!

Yeah, it's part of the 6.2 update.

I think the people who don't want that to happen probably should have thought twice about coming into threads committed to compile criticism and feedback only to go off on lengthy tangents about how the game is fine and exceedingly popular and that any opposition exists solely in the form of a vocal minority.

But Theodric... you're not respecting Striker's majoritah!!! You simply must remember that Endwalker was the 'most popular expansion ever' (TM) and that anyone who disagrees is in the minoritah, and thus must respect the factual opinions of those in the majoritah.

Kind of like how the people tired of Venat being criticised and held accountable probably should not have spent months or years declaring loudly that there was never, ever an excuse or justification for genocide only to change their tune as soon as their precious 'mOmMy GoDdEsS' became complicit in such acts herself.

Uh oh. Someone said the V word! What's the ETA on SannaR, Mightymollusk, or Boblawblah screaming their head off because someone mentioned a character in the game?

the OP did word things rather poorly for their intent (or was their intent to start this mess)

Their intent was to either start this mess, or to insult critics of the game. They wore their motives on their sleeve. It's 100% one of those two, the question is just which one, and it's not like either are particularly great.

[Supersnow845]

Not necessarily. Especially when you consider how some people here consider the simple number of pages a thread has as an indication of how much "support" the initial thought has (rather than acknowledging it could be a thorough discussion with people on both sides). It's not "white knighting" at all to make one post about a topic saying you enjoy it in a forum surrounded by a bunch of other negative posts. Positive feedback is feedback, too. Or is that the plan? Say "this should be about criticism, anybody posting positive things is just a shill" then saying "see there's only negative posts here, the devs are horrible and should change everything they do." There's no honesty there. It might not help the perpetual naysayers to see people posting positive comments, but it does in fact help everyone to show that said naysayers aren't the norm among the wider playerbase.

Frankly, it amuses me to see how the same people will claim there are all of these other sites that are utterly and completely intolerant of any negative comments about the game, just filled with oodles of people praising the devs, and how these forums are the only place where one can post negative comments...and then in the next breath claim that the negative comments from our few dozen or so folks here are somehow massively representative of the wider community and should be taken as the norm.

It's actually quite telling that even with the echo chamber here, the naysayers can't even allow one positive topic to exist without coming in and trying to passively-aggressively disrupt it or take it down. It's sad that people are so negative, they can't even accept other people having fun. That's when it's time to step back, take a break, and realize one might just be taking a game too seriously.

A positive topic is fine and you’ll see past positive topics are always well received, a positive topic that basically amounts to “don’t look at all those people complaining everything is fine UWU” is just stupid and a waste

I certainly couldn’t care less overall (I basically sit on these forums because I get enjoyment out of arguing I don’t really care about the topic it’s not like I actually get angry or involved over it) but it’s just funny that people have had 4 months to praise the devs (6.1 was well received) but not gotta wait till the community on here gets angry then throw the UWU bomb