The Devs need a much needed thanks!

[Renalt]

Here's one issue I have. It's a big one and it's kinda gonna be a long post. I'll see if I can TL;DR the end.

People LOVE to complain but hate to praise. This is fact. You see it everywhere and it's SO common you will never even take notice of it. Want proof? Look at any review of any game, restaurant, retail store, etc...and see how many times a review is in short "I go here all the time and things have been fine and I like the place and blah blah blah but I had one bad experience because of reasons. 1 star.

It happens...a LOT. Question for people...be honest. How many times have you had a pretty good experience and left a review? How many times have you had a bad experience and left a review? That said...I've seen it happen so many times where people will literally only review a place if they have that one bad experience. COuld have 100s of good experience but hey...they got my money right? That's all the thanks they need. Hell I've seen MANY people on the forums say "My thanks is the fact I'm subbed". Here's the problem...let me draw up a scenario.

You work in retail. You are doing your very best and give 100% maximum effort and things are great. Did they give you a good review? No. The money spent is thanks. That goes to the company and not the workers.

Now...same scenario. You work your ass off. Maximum effort. They complain and whine they didn't get things THEIR way. They leave a negative review. Guess what the boss sees? That negative review. You're fired. Should have done better.

But hey...when you do good they support by paying money right? The boss does not see that. That's suppose to happen. They don't see you working your ass off.

TL;DR

Boss man doesn't see you doing a good job just cause people spend money at the store. That is to be expected. When people start whining though...they are SO QUICK to voice their complaints...and boss man sees that and thinks you are terrible.

Why, they aren’t entitled to me praising them when they do anything (especially when it’s partially fixing the mistake they made in a way nobody wanted), I pay them money and receive a service, when something is done that isn’t bad enough to make me cancel the service but I’m displeased I complain, I would say this is business 101 but this is more like fisher and paykel my first business lesson

Not typing it again but it was probably buried. The quote. That's why.

[Midareyukki]

The devs should be praised when they do good work. They should also be criticized when something goes wrong. Fair is fair.

Would be far more useful if people could be reasonable and adult about it instead of the standard "small indie company devs don't care about EN" rhetoric, but that's anonymous social media for ya.

Exactly.

Things I praise the devs for:
- 1.0 -> ARR
- Listening to fans and adding content in
- Making the game's experience not be any more of a hassle than it has to be (at least in comparison to when I started, thank god sprouts don't have to go through half of what I did)
- Understand their game is old and has outdated designs and try to improve on them
- Being somewhat creative on their job designs
- Crafting and Gathering not making me want to quit the game
- Honestly entertaining story with fun Final Fantasy-style ham and cringe that contrasts the awkwardness old MMOs have
- Hrothgars!
- Being able to play with PS4 people (I wouldn't have met my friends otherwise, and I love them to bits)
- All of Shadowbringers
- Soken
- Housing and other similarly chill content
and others!

Things I do not praise the devs for:
- Being complacent
- Ignoring fan feedback
- Making stupid decisions that benefit absolutely no one! (also: not thinking twice before going through with their designs)
- Quality Assurance going down the drain
- Their treatment of Hrothgars after release
- Job design being utter chaos
- Stupid answers (ok assuming I can forgive them saying Hrothgar ears were hard, the hell kind of answer is 'go play ultimate'????)
- Cringe in the MSQ. But like, the BAD cringe. Loporrits.
- Lack of transparency
and others around the same vein.

And I have zero problem hiding either of these camps.

Boss man doesn't see you doing a good job just cause people spend money at the store. That is to be expected. When people start whining though...they are SO QUICK to voice their complaints...and boss man sees that and thinks you are terrible.

Oh, you're right in saying this. I agree with that assessment. Unfortunately at no point was any of that sentiment properly worded by OP and her shills until now.

The devs do require praise as well, otherwise they're demotivated AF. But I'm sorry, I WON'T stop saying where they screwed up just because I know they'll be demotivated if I do. And sometimes, I can't just up and whip out a good thing out of my trousers, it's not that simple. And it looks forced if I do.

I pay the devs my subscription. I'm still around BECAUSE I love playing their content. I'm still a Hrothgar BECAUSE I love being one, otherwise I'd just change or stop playing. They made the content, well I'm playing it and enjoying it, even if it seems like they don't want me to. If the devs need a bit more motivation, then they have it, all over the internet. Millions of voices, tweets, posts, streamers, cosplayers, all of it, expressing their love and support for the game and their dev team.

But this is the only one place they accept criticism. And unfortunately for them, lately, it has to come hot and harsh. They had flaws in Stormblood, they had flaws in Shadowbringers. I didn't really care, hell, I even defended them at the time. But Endwalker for me was too much all at once.

I point to this post again. Remember that they were the ones who said "A criticism is better than a compliment". Not me: THEM. We DO compliment them. But if they screw up, they have to know. And if they refuse to acknowledge their issues, how else are we meant to feel? How are healers meant to feel when they ask for challenge and are told to take a hike? From the dev team we're meant to sing praises to? It just makes us not want to sing any praise at all! And that shouldn't be devalued just because "it's too negative".

[Supersnow845]

Not typing it again but it was probably buried. The quote. That's why.

Your not very apt analogy of retail (which falls pretty flat on its own because yoshi is a square executive and a lot of the devs are higher ranking than “front line grunt”) doesn’t even apply here because this post is entirely reactionary to extremely valid complaints about the balancing problems of the game recently, as much as complaints in retail suck you are getting paid a wage and that is your “reward” for meeting the companies expectations on a regular basis, it makes you feel good but you aren’t entitled to constant customer praise because you are doing what you signed up to do

Responding to complaints about P8 balancing with “yeah but fell court of troia is so pretty” more or less is just diverting a legit problem people are having, the devs will get praise from the players when they do something worth praising and right now 6.2 hasn’t shown much of it

[Reimmi]

You can praise the devs, but you have to call them out too when they're clearly in the wrong
Not that i'm saying harass them, it's never okay to harass people, but they've clearly messed up with job balance and their response is very lackluster.

Won't nerf jobs because they don't want to upset people
Won't buff underperforming jobs to not upset the jobs doing well...?
so never adjust jobs by that logic?

[Renalt]

Exactly.





Oh, you're right in saying this. I agree with that assessment. Unfortunately at no point was any of that sentiment properly worded by OP and her shills until now.

The devs do require praise as well, otherwise they're demotivated AF. But I'm sorry, I WON'T stop saying where they screwed up just because I know they'll be demotivated if I do. And sometimes, I can't just up and whip out a good thing out of my trousers, it's not that simple. And it looks forced if I do.

I pay the devs my subscription. I'm still around BECAUSE I love playing their content. I'm still a Hrothgar BECAUSE I love being one, otherwise I'd just change or stop playing. They made the content, well I'm playing it and enjoying it, even if it seems like they don't want me to. If the devs need a bit more motivation, then they have it, all over the internet. Millions of voices, tweets, posts, streamers, cosplayers, all of it, expressing their love and support for the game and their dev team.

But this is the only one place they accept criticism. And unfortunately for them, lately, it has to come hot and harsh. They had flaws in Stormblood, they had flaws in Shadowbringers. I didn't really care, hell, I even defended them at the time. But Endwalker for me was too much all at once.

I point to this post again. Remember that they were the ones who said "A criticism is better than a compliment". Not me: THEM. We DO compliment them. But if they screw up, they have to know. And if they refuse to acknowledge their issues, how else are we meant to feel? How are healers meant to feel when they ask for challenge and are told to take a hike? From the dev team we're meant to sing praises to? It just makes us not want to sing any praise at all! And that shouldn't be devalued just because "it's too negative".

Most reasonable response yet. I appreciate that. Had to cut the quote a bit cause 3000 character limit.

[GTK0HLK]

The fact people can arm their viewpoints with lots of either data, and logic.
BUT still be wrong cause it applies to something else. is a tale older than Customers, and Businesses.

We all know and appreciate what the devs have done right.
and no one argues that they should be shown the understanding.
And we will tell them WHEN they do things right, cause it'll push them in the vague direction we want them to go in.[even if most of us may agree and disagree on many things, in different topics. despite there being a clear minority/majority depending on the topic]
Just as we will push against anything that shouldn't have been done, be done, or simply isn't what's best for, or the wants of the consumer.
A Push/wall of complaints paints a clearer direction, than a wall of cheers(where they get a direction, but there is no rails to decipher what it is we want easily).

Simply put, not a good thread to bring up about, when the topic at hand was widely accepted.

If it had been made later when the devs made/did something praise worthy.
we would all be there praising, whilst giving more feedback.
This ain't it Adventurer.

[AwesomeJr44]

*insert quote from earlier here*

Want me to praise your work? Excel. Go above and beyond. EARN my praise. I will not praise you or the SE devs for 'good enough' or 'what you're supposed to do'. Doing the bare minimum is your job. You get paid to do that. If you want praise, you need to earn it. However, if you give me a subpar product, I will be complaining.

Exactly.

Things I praise the devs for:
- 1.0 -> ARR
- Listening to fans and adding content in
- Making the game's experience not be any more of a hassle than it has to be (at least in comparison to when I started, thank god sprouts don't have to go through half of what I did)
- Understand their game is old and has outdated designs and try to improve on them
- Being somewhat creative on their job designs
- Crafting and Gathering not making me want to quit the game
- Honestly entertaining story with fun Final Fantasy-style ham and cringe that contrasts the awkwardness old MMOs have
- Hrothgars!
- Being able to play with PS4 people (I wouldn't have met my friends otherwise, and I love them to bits)
- All of Shadowbringers
- Soken
- Housing and other similarly chill content
and others!

Things I do not praise the devs for:
- Being complacent
- Ignoring fan feedback
- Making stupid decisions that benefit absolutely no one! (also: not thinking twice before going through with their designs)
- Quality Assurance going down the drain
- Their treatment of Hrothgars after release
- Job design being utter chaos
- Stupid answers (ok assuming I can forgive them saying Hrothgar ears were hard, the hell kind of answer is 'go play ultimate'????)
- Cringe in the MSQ. But like, the BAD cringe. Loporrits.
- Lack of transparency
and others around the same vein.

See this guy right here? Be this guy. Have standards. Give praise where its due and scorn when its due.

[Silverbane]

Again: Thank you Devs for bringing us an amazing game. I know mistakes are made, we are all human and you all do your best to fix it. I look forward to seeing what you bring in 6.25 and 6.3.

I appreciate your courage, AlaineIV. You knew this forum was full of haters, that the haters hate anyone who dares to not hate what they hate, and would therefor direct their hate at you. But you posted anyway, so for you, kudos and a true story:

My spouse plays FFXIV but doesn't read the forums, except for things like Camie Tsukino's posts that I send her links to. At dinner out tonight, we were discussing glamours, and I mentioned a cash shop item.
My spouse, out of nowhere, said "I should really take a look through Mog Station. I'd like to buy something from it to thank the developers."
I just smiled.

Then we tipped the waitress $10 in cash on a $45 total bill, because she'd been very pleasant and professional and we'd enjoyed our dinner.

I doubt many of the haters here would have done that. The haters would maybe have thought there was too much ice in the drinks, or that the meal couldn't possibly have cost $45 to make, and used that as an excuse to not tip at all. That's their way.

You should be happy that you aren't like the haters, AlaineIV.
I think you understand that:

Whether it's a work of art, a video game, a car, a restaurant meal, a friend, or a spouse, happiness comes from appreciating the important things you value, and not getting your panties in a knot about the little things that aren't exactly as you'd like.

[Silverbane]

You can praise the devs, but you have to call them out too when they're clearly in the wrong.

No, I don't.

I can praise my spouse but overlook their mistakes.
After four decades together, that seems to work pretty well.
I don't see that I need to treat the devs any different.

Like my spouse, and unlike most forum posters, the devs have brought a lot of fun into my life.
So like my spouse, I cut the devs some slack.

BTW, there's evidence that punishment may not be a good tool for training dogs. (https://arstechnica.com/science/2022...ining-to-heel/).
If those findings generalize to other mammals, abusing the devs here in the forums may not produce the results the abusers are hoping for.

[Edit: and may be a reason why the devs don't seem to pay any attention to the English forums.]

[AwesomeJr44]

I appreciate your courage, AlaineIV. You knew this forum was full of haters, that the haters hate anyone who dares to not hate what they hate, and would therefor direct their hate at you.

It doesn't take courage to post on an online forum. If you think it does, you're a coward. And I say this as someone with a lot of opinions that aren't 'mainstream'. Also, labeling anyone and everyone as a 'hater' if they don't shower Yoshi and his team of devs with constant praise is just trying to invalidate the people who don't think that praise should be a participation trophy. Although if we want to be fair, you're a pretty hateful person yourself Silverbane. Are you sure that you aren't a 'hater'?

My spouse plays FFXIV but doesn't read the forums, except for things like Camie Tsukino's posts that I send her links to. At dinner out tonight, we were discussing glamours, and I mentioned a cash shop item.
My spouse, out of nowhere, said "I should really take a look through Mog Station. I'd like to buy something from it to thank the developers."

And you are free to do this if you wish to. We all do this in the form of our sub. (literally as you need a sub to be on the forums) I know you love going into threads to boast about yourself or your spouse, but this isn't something special to treat as a win over the 'haters'.

Then we tipped the waitress $10 in cash on a $45 total bill, because she'd been very pleasant and professional and we'd enjoyed our dinner. I doubt many of the haters here would have done that. The haters would maybe have thought there was too much ice in the drinks, or that the meal couldn't possibly have cost $45 to make, and used that as an excuse to not tip at all.

Cool. Lots of people tip the waiter even if the food was subpar, primarily because the waiter is typically not the cook. For me to not tip a waiter, they have to actively be rude to me. And I don't say that as if I'm a special case, that's just how it works.

That's their way.

And your way is going into threads about how hard it is to get a house and bragging that you have multiple. Or actually, is your way going into threads where people are asking for more content to fill the content lull between patches, and then deciding to play internet psychologist, make wild guesses at their personal mental health, and diagnose them with an addiction?

Like my spouse, and unlike most forum posters, the devs have brought a lot of fun into my life.
So like my spouse, I cut the devs some slack.

I used to as well, but they've burnt through the goodwill they've built up with me throughout the years. SE is not my friend. They're not my spouse. They're a business, and if they don't treat me, as one of their customers, correctly I will criticize them.