The Devs need a much needed thanks!

[Atelier-Bagur]

You do realize that you're on the English sub-forum, don't you? English also happens to be one of the most widely spoken second languages in the world, so it makes sense that if someone was going to do a simulcast, in order to reach the widest possible audience, then it would be in English. Not to mention, Yoshi-P also understands and speaks English, from what I understand, so should the translator misinterpret, which is always possible- it's likely he would catch the error and be able to correct it.

There are a lot of advantages in providing an official live translation in English.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't be pushing for more live English translations. Please, actually read my posts before making these assumptions.

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be acting like SE has zero official communication with this side of the community. When,

A: this is a false statement since we do actually get official translations or in depth communication behind what they said in the live letters anyway.

B. It's common for fan translations to misinterpret information being said, so saying that is the fans do a better job is not really much of an argument.

[IDontPetLalas]

And I'm not saying they shouldn't be pushing for more live English translations. Please, actually read my posts before making these assumptions.

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be acting like SE has zero official communication with this side of the community. When,

A: this is a false statement since we do actually get official translations or in depth communication behind what they said in the live letters anyway.

B. It's common for fan translations to misinterpret information being said, so saying that is the fans do a better job is not really much of an argument.

I did "actually read" your post, if you felt that I assumed something that was likely due to its brevity, if you go back and look at it there wasn't much to go on.

Regarding point A- I never said there was zero communications from SE, however I would dispute that the quality or the experience of a couple of lines on a Powerpoint is equivalent to have an in-depth live commentary from SE.

Regarding point B, do you work with professional translators? Because I do. It is very uncommon for them to make errors. They are highly paid and in high demand for a reason- it is a very demanding profession and they set very high standards, even then they go through approval and verification. Although fan translators are well-intended, they themselves admit that their translations should be carefully interpreted. In addition- I never said that the fans do a better job, I don't know where that came from - as much as I very much appreciate , and use, the fan translations of the Live Letters.

[Silverbane]

Regarding point B, do you work with professional translators? Because I do. It is very uncommon for them to make errors.

I don't know what the subject matter of the translations you are getting is, but the translations I get, which are highly technical documents concerning cutting-edge technology, come from some of the world's largest corporations and universities, and are intended to form the basis of important legal documents, substantive errors are the norm, not the exception.

[Midareyukki]

Regarding point B, do you work with professional translators? Because I do. It is very uncommon for them to make errors. They are highly paid and in high demand for a reason- it is a very demanding profession and they set very high standards, even then they go through approval and verification. Although fan translators are well-intended, they themselves admit that their translations should be carefully interpreted. In addition- I never said that the fans do a better job, I don't know where that came from - as much as I very much appreciate , and use, the fan translations of the Live Letters.

I mean, it'd be a horrible spot on the resume being told your work sucks. Especially since you have platforms where people post reviews of your work, and companies won't want to keep someone who can't maintain the quality they ask for. Most translators have some level of formatory years so they pay more attention, and some do their own revision. If they don't, then someone in the group will. Mistakes do happen, though, but as you said it is rare. Because it's a job that demands a lot of reading and consideration; had we not cared about quality, why would you be paying someone to do it when google translate works just fine, right?

The biggest danger with professional translators is that, unlike amateurs, they know the weight of the contract with their client. So sometimes, not always, but sometimes... the company does ask them to soften up the message. It does depend on the context, and while I don't think Square Enix does it with its translators/interpreters because the "softening" is already in Yoshida's own words rather than the translator's, that aspect might be there. It sounds amoral, but it's really just business. Which is why I think it's both insulting yet hilarious that people complain about Square's own translation teams or interpreters. I remember when Aimi Tokutake came up, people said she didn't do a good job. And I was just watching her, fresh out of my master's on the subject, and the only thing I had to point out she did "wrong" was saying "umm" too much. Because I personally was trained to mitigate it as much as possible. They do do a good job, the only thing I'd point out is that sometimes they forget the sheer amount of people tuning in and listening, so someone's bound to misinterpret things and overhype it... but while interpreters and translators can be aware of that, they're not at fault for it. There's only so much they do. And before people think this is a major issue: Translators might have less chances for that, since revision might catch changes in meaning. But no one's reviewing what interpreters say, that's true. HOWEVER, it's also why professionals tend to be prudent while interpreting. Again, it's why you pay them, and not TTS Google Translate.

People forget that translation takes A LOT of work and professionals are aware of way more risks than the average person. And even as a professional, the "lost in translation" effect does still apply, because no two languages are the same, no matter how similar. So mistakes CAN happen even for professionals. But at least Professionals know that there are ways to mitigate it, even for such distant languages like English and Japanese. And they do employ it. They're trained to. There needs to be a bit more credit awarded imo.

[IDontPetLalas]

I mean, it'd be a horrible spot on the resume being told your work sucks. Especially since you have platforms where people post reviews of your work, and companies won't want to keep someone who can't maintain the quality they ask for. Most translators have some level of formatory years so they pay more attention, and some do their own revision. If they don't, then someone in the group will. Mistakes do happen, though, but as you said it is rare. Because it's a job that demands a lot of reading and consideration; had we not cared about quality, why would you be paying someone to do it when google translate works just fine, right?
(snip) I remember when Aimi Tokutake came up, people said she didn't do a good job. And I was just watching her, fresh out of my master's on the subject, and the only thing I had to point out she did "wrong" was saying "umm" too much. Because I personally was trained to mitigate it as much as possible. They do do a good job, the only thing I'd point out is that sometimes they forget the sheer amount of people tuning in and listening, so someone's bound to misinterpret things and overhype it... but while interpreters and translators can be aware of that, they're not at fault for it. There's only so much they do. And before people think this is a major issue: Translators might have less chances for that, since revision might catch changes in meaning. But no one's reviewing what interpreters say, that's true. HOWEVER, it's also why professionals tend to be prudent while interpreting. Again, it's why you pay them, and not TTS Google Translate.

People forget that translation takes A LOT of work and professionals are aware of way more risks than the average person. And even as a professional, the "lost in translation" effect does still apply, because no two languages are the same, no matter how similar. So mistakes CAN happen even for professionals. But at least Professionals know that there are ways to mitigate it, even for such distant languages like English and Japanese. And they do employ it. They're trained to. There needs to be a bit more credit awarded imo.

It's funny that you mentioned the "umm" being an issue, I received feedback myself years ago during training for presentations. I didn't believe that I di say it until I, like every other trainee, watched a video of my presentation- what an eye-opener.

By the way, that was only one of many irritating habits that we were told to avoid because it detract from our message. People don't realize what they do subconsciously and just how much their audience picks up on , I wouldn't be surprised if (live) translators get similar training, I never thought of it but it makes a lot of sense.

[Silverbane]

B. It's common for fan translations to misinterpret information being said, so saying that is the fans do a better job is not really much of an argument.

Professional translators can do this too, especially regarding subjects having extensive jargon associated with them.
This is another reason that letting the volunteer amateurs do the real-time translation: SE's not responsible for their mistakes. The subsequent professional translation can be checked and corrected by the devs before its release.

[N.B. I actually have to deal with this problem in my profession. I handle the "English-to-English translation" (among other revisions) of a lot of jargon-heavy documents that were professionally translated into English from a foreign language.]

[Midareyukki]

Professional translators can do this too, especially regarding subjects having extensive jargon associated with them.
This is another reason that letting the volunteer amateurs do the real-time translation: SE's not responsible for their mistakes. The subsequent professional translation can be checked and corrected by the devs before its release.

[N.B. I actually have to deal with this problem in my profession. I handle the "English-to-English translation" (among other revisions) of a lot of jargon-heavy documents that were professionally translated into English from a foreign language.]

YES. You guys have no idea how easy it is to write something you think is right when it's really not. That's why revision is always important, if not by you, then by someone else who will act like the reader for you. And some jargon-heavy text might not be easy to understand and give you a wrong impression. And Silverbane's just saying English to English, which on its own already has some issues.

Japanese is a context-heavy language, and they love to beat around the bush when speaking rather than being direct. If professionals themselves can make mistakes and be misled, amateurs are even worse. But at the same time, Square knows this, and thus can easily just say "No, that's not what we meant". Though I don't think they like it either way. No one would. Because often fans mislead and overhype some stuff that they then need to come out and explain better. And if they do it too often, then it can just become frustrating. Yes, it clears them from that particular responsability, but the downside is that you then need to clarify. Either what you don't want to clarify or what you thought didn't need any clarification, and thus feels like wasting your time on stuff you already mentioned.

[SturmChurro]

Square knows this, and thus can easily just say "No, that's not what we meant".

What was it again, they weren't originally going to add hrothgar hair, even though it was said they would?

[Midareyukki]

What was it again, they weren't originally going to add hrothgar hair, even though it was said they would?

Girl we went over this. And what they said was that they weren't going to add shared Hrothgar hair, but rather make Hrothgar hair be unique if they ever were to have them. Plus, there's much better examples of these. *COUGH* THIRD PARTY TOOLS *COUGH*

If you want to continue this, I'm happy to necro the Hrothgar threads for you~

[SturmChurro]

Girl we went over this. And what they said was that they weren't going to add shared Hrothgar hair, but rather make Hrothgar hair be unique if they ever were to have them. Plus, there's much better examples of these. *COUGH* THIRD PARTY TOOLS *COUGH*

If you want to continue this, I'm happy to necro the Hrothgar threads for you~

Oh, I know, I wasn't trying to start a whole thing about hrothgar specifically, just thought it was relevant, in that I think I recall it being referred to as a "mistranslation". It's just still so funny to me to think about the literal quotes there are of one thing being said, with dated proof, and then something else being said later.