The Devs need a much needed thanks!

[AlaineIV]

Here is the thing, we can be nice about it, go to the place to tell them "hey, you might need to make some changes here and there" goes silent. Or they have a live letter to stick to there choices. However, when you have everybody from all over, from English side to the japanese side saying the same thing and voices are not being heard and the only time they will "fix" things when everybody yells and make videos about it. It shouldn't have to be.

yes, they added echo, yes they fixed the healer lb so that it does not give us weakness. That was past not now. Yes they are human and they can make mistake. But they need to iron that out on there end as far as communicating with themselfs and the community If there stance was to make every job viable on every bit content then they need to make sure that they work out the kinks before launch

That's why there is a feedback forum, though I would be safe to assume that the people that actually use the forums is just only a fraction of the people that actually play the game, devs only have so much to go by. When developers see all the bashing it makes them feel less connected to the game. Look at WoW for instance, a single raid tier has over 30 nerfs combined over all bosses in a span of a month. Yet people here complaining like 1 nerf to a boss is the end of the world.

[MagiusNecros]

I'm all for praising them when they deserve it, as well as criticizing them when it is needed. To be honest though, it seems like a thread like this pops up every time there's some drama over a recent development decision, so it makes me wonder what the intention is.

White Knight Defense Force coming in full force when any criticism Hydra rears it's ugly head.

[Axxion]

That's why there is a feedback forum, though I would be safe to assume that the people that actually use the forums is just only a fraction of the people that actually play the game, devs only have so much to go by. When developers see all the bashing it makes them feel less connected to the game. Look at WoW for instance, a single raid tier has over 30 nerfs combined over all bosses in a span of a month. Yet people here complaining like 1 nerf to a boss is the end of the world.

Kindly see update.

Well yes its only a faction because some of them A) does not know about it and does not know where to give feed back or B) alot of people rather live in a echo chamber.

I never played wow

But you missed the point that i mentioned before. Since they want to make all job viable then this should not been a issue.

You say dev have only much to go by? We have official forums for all languages and people make thread asking for changes. Remember back in HW with pld? from hw and now the feed back with pld became good.

The devs dont see the feedback the community rep does , and keep in mind ours stepped down years ago never got one ever since. The only time we have mod interactions are when leaks happen and they try to delete threads and posts or when they have to close threads

[SassyAssassin]

Oh the cringe

[Sotaris]

Yet people here complaining like 1 nerf to a boss is the end of the world.

People speak up when there is justified criticism. Do you think it's healthy to just be a yes-man to everything the devs do?
Clearly some people felt they was upset about the change.
Personally I couldn't care less but I don't really raid so I don't have a say in the matter.

[ameliaw]

This game has the strangest community I've ever seen and it's not even close.
The devs need a pat on the back when people complain about balance. OK. Got it.

[Midareyukki]

The recent savage nerf to p8s p1 as well as the PLD and WAR buffs where that PLD, WAR, RPR, RDM, MCH, and SGE struggled to meet the dps check required even if they played flawlessly, by about 1%. *Spoiler* the 8th boss of the Pandaemonium raid is a piece of Lahabread. From what I gathered by high end raiders/ content creators complaining heavily about this, in which turn lead to more people malding or even hating the devs for it. A boss hasn't been nerfed like this since HW in Alexander Savage. People forget that the Coils brought us echo. Mistakes where made, but instead of providing feedback for the devs like a select few did, people decided to bash. There is a difference between criticizing and bashing.

So your main thing you want to praise the devs for is taking into account Savage? Cute. The rest of the game exists too, context exists too.

While nerfing the fight is indeed an option, the real issue lies in how these classes are designed, which isn't great. Given how the fight itself was designed, those problems got exacerbated. And it's easier to just nerf the fight itself than acknowledge and address the issues that lead to the problems classes have in the first place: strict 2 minute burst windows, over-reliance on resources with many classes having little ways to compensate, among many others.

Coils brought us the Echo. Gordias brought us better raid design. "Mistakes were made", yes. But context also matters. It's not an issue of people forgetting that Square can learn and do better, it's that Square seems to have forgotten that themselves. Not just on raiding.

but instead of providing feedback for the devs like a select few did, people decided to bash

Yeah nah, bait.

Sure, a lot of people DID bash the devs over it, but you're really going to say that it was unfounded? We have a document going around explaining the issue with classes and why this failed to begin with. It didn't come out of thin air, lady.

Here's the thing you've forgotten. They had all that good faith, and they honestly still have some. WE KNOW they have some, because it's still an otherwise solid MMO. The issue is that they keep doing stuff that loses good will, and they keep abusing that button. If they "learned" since Alexander and Coils, then why are we having issues now? Maybe because we kept telling them what worked and what didn't and they decided to ignore us. Just ask any healer main.
- Endwalker launch got delayed
- Early Access was borked and they blamed full servers on "you connection is just faulty"
- Glitches abound on the game. Noticeable ones from the crackling sound to the stuff PvP classes could exploit.
- Hrothgar hairs and the ear connundrum, with a response that got called out on by fans proving them wrong on-stream
- Housing

You know... all stuff that either wouldn't have happened OR even if it did, their response would have been different? You're describing the dev team as a team that was treated unfairly, yet they're a team that has recently been treating their playerbase unfairly. We DO provide feedback to Square, it's always a coinflip whether they listen nowadays, and the results haven't been the best; hence the bashing. This game's lucky to still have a decent enough quality for people to play, because the relationship has been deteriorating, players mistrust the development team and people complain when they warn the devs about their quality levels not being met, and all with good reason. And they're lucky to be the dev team that's garnered so much popularity over the years. Because had it been anyone else, and the bashing would have gone past mere "whining" on the forums. But that's dropping, and while not everyone is so extreme as to leave, chances are they're still upset about some of the team's reactions and approaches.

And when you have quality dips and poor assurance so consistently, you're bound to get hit with fans not taking any of your BS.

It's fine that the devs are humans and whatnot, but like humans do, they're currently being too lax. Being human doesn't stop anyone from being responsible for the actions they take.

[MagiusNecros]

This game has the strangest community I've ever seen and it's not even close.
The devs need a pat on the back when people complain about balance. OK. Got it.

Oh the people complaining are giving a GOOD pat on the back. Gonna need a Benediction and a Panhaima for that one.

[AlaineIV]

People speak up when there is justified criticism. Do you think it's healthy to just be a yes-man to everything the devs do?
Clearly some people felt they was upset about the change.
Personally I couldn't care less but I don't really raid so I don't have a say in the matter.

The nerf was much needed, an apology letter was stated by Yoshi P. However, it's just more of a temporary fix. PLDs got a decent potency buff as they are a sustained damage tank to be more in line with the other 3 tanks which have much more significant burst during a 2 minute window. Back in ShB, PLDs were actually in a nice spot. As they stated they are looking to rework PLD as a whole.

WARs buff was only 10 Potency on their main combo rotation outside of the burst.

When it comes to a pure dps class like MCH, RDM a lot more has to be taken into consideration when balancing the class rather than just adding potency to their abilities. Damage variance is taken into account along with uptime and movement. With Melee having at least a 98% uptime on all 4 bosses (minus the untargetable phases that P5s and P8s p2 offer) makes range a lot less valuable. So behind closed doors they are probably discussing on what to do with BRD and MCH.

DNC brings a ton of raid utility which is fine, and the proc's they have to have leave them in a decent spot for range.

RDM (imo) is the least mobile of the 3 casters. BLM having 7 instant cast, dashing to an ally, dashing back to fey lines, and able to work those instant cast around heavy movement mechanics, SMN with two primal phases, bahamut, and phoenix all being instant cast makes them extremely Mobile. RMD is stuck with only Accelerate and swift cast. They have to cast every other ability to be able to swift cast < on top of that for melee (which is mobile) you have to build up for it which allows scorch < holy < flare < resolution to all be insta cast. They do have enchanted Reprise at 330 potency costing 5 black/white mana, but that slightly delays your melee combo.

Each class has a flaw, but some more noticeable than others at the moment.

[Renalt]

Despite this last week and the amount of flak that they received, they work extremely hard to bring us a game that is much loved and enjoyed. The amount of hate I have seen this past week because a class can't do 1% more damage is absurd in the slightest, but then again that is only less than 2% of the community most likely complaining. Those that are complaining are the ones that have zero ideal what they are talking about and are only outcrying what their favorite streamer is telling them to outcry.

Again: Thank you Devs for bringing us an amazing game. I know mistakes are made, we are all human and you all do your best to fix it. I look forward to seeing what you bring in 6.25 and 6.3.

I like this. I agree that people are too easy to anger. Hell one of my signature quotes fits perfectly for the situation. I've not had one single issue that is bad enough to make me complain about how it works and I've played every class and most of them are maxed. I can't say anything of Reaper though since I've not picked it up.

I've have fun with the game in both just playing the damn thing or sitting around and just being a degenerate in shout chat in Uldah.