What Zero Could've Been

[SannaR]

This speaks to another frustration I have with her: she never seems all that excited to learn new things.

Take G'raha circa Crystal Tower, for example. He was upset at having to allow us to clear out the dangerous sections before the scientists could have their turn to inspect and test parts of the Tower. He was so excited over the idea of seeing new things related to his specialization that it was a part of his characterization.

But Y'shtola never seems to react that way. I'm not saying she has to be sulky over not getting to be among the first to see something in the same way G'raha is, but about the ony thing I can ever remember wow-ing her is maybe Amaurot? For the rest, she seems remarkably detached and unphased by anything new that happens to her or even comes across her path.

To me I think that's partly due to her figuring that's how you should act. Because again look at who raised her. We also don't know the types of stuff she might have read in a certain Library. I mean it had a few books about Garlean naming conventions in it. Along with its own restricted section. I know that is all a weak sauced rebuttal but it does fit her character and background.

[tokinokanatae]

To me I think that's partly due to her figuring that's how you should act. Because again look at who raised her. We also don't know the types of stuff she might have read in a certain Library. I mean it had a few books about Garlean naming conventions in it. Along with its own restricted section. I know that is all a weak sauced rebuttal but it does fit her character and background.

I think you're actually 100% right on why they write Y'shtola this way. It definitely has to do with her upbringing and it's an affect she (probably) deliberately plays into, since she doesn't like being seen as vulnerable. I just think you need a character to be a little bit vulnerable to the player character to really connect to them, but I fully admit that might just be my own issue. Y'shotla's certainly popular enough even without appealing directly to me!

[SentioftheHoukai]

Excellent post, and puts into words why Y'shtola has bothered me for a while, especially the part I quoted.

I remember especially during one of our talks with the Watcher during the EW MSQ getting irritated with the way she was addressing him. Hello, you're talking to someone (well, sort of) thousands of years old from a world beyond ours about a history lost to the ages who has seen and known things far beyond your comprehension while we're stood on a secret base on the moon we never even knew existed, could you possibly not talk to him like you would some petulant schoolboy you're questioning in the street and have some vague semblance of emotion about you?

Is he, though? I don't recall the narrative giving us any actual indication he retained the vast repositories of knowledge that an Ancient that lived through the Final Days of Yore and what came before might possess. I'm not saying that you're definitively wrong per se, but he always came off more to me as some sort of Sundered familiar of Hydaelyn's in a manner similar to Argos. He almost certainly wasn't the same man that he was during the era of the World Unsundered. Say what you will about Y'shtola, but rude and dismissive is certainly not one the adjectives I'd use to describe her. She's never actually talked down towards anyone, not in anyway that could really be considered dismissive. Most of the closest counterexamples are more snarky one-liners, like "Little Sun", and "Take you over my knee" and the more recent one when the WoL throws her under the bus beneath Thavnair's ocean.

To me I think that's partly due to her figuring that's how you should act. Because again look at who raised her. We also don't know the types of stuff she might have read in a certain Library. I mean it had a few books about Garlean naming conventions in it. Along with its own restricted section. I know that is all a weak sauced rebuttal but it does fit her character and background.

I don't really think that a weak counterargument. So little of Y'shtola's actual upbringing and background is directly stated that such inferences based on what little context clues we do know are often necessary to piece together an accurate picture of what she's like. Personally, I'd argue that Y'shtola being somewhat emotionally detached upon discovering something new can actually be attributed to her apprenticeship under the Master Matoya. We've all seen what she's like, it's not unrealistic to think Y'shtola may have picked up some of her mannerisms in the process. It helps to tie the title of Master Matoya between the both of them as well. It's almost like the former is maternal towards the latter. Something to ruminate upon, at any rate.

Honestly I'd argue all the Scions could use some fleshed out backstories now that all the hubbub over the Apocalypse is out of the way. It'd certainly make them more tolerable, at least for me. How much do we definitively know about any individual member of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn? I empathize more with characters with fleshed out backstories and motives, and FFXIV ironically does better in this respect with it's antagonists and now all the major ones are dead and dusted. As an aside, this topic's title is kinda funny since Zero's story.... hasn't actually gone anywhere yet. While I can't really say I'm looking forward to where they take it, I function better when I give people the benefit of the doubt than when I condemn them based on a pre-crime. So, I dunno maybe the Void will be interesting. I know I have my own expectations for it, but it's simply not feasible to expect all those to play out as I desire them to.

[Absimiliard]

I feel the Trust system could benefit from some randomization going forward. Rather than the Scions (barring dungeons where it is narratively appropriate, of course) accompanying the WoL into battle, the roles could be filled by randomly generated NPCs. It would do a good job of giving that "I'm fighting alongside random adventurers" feel the game lost a long time ago. Couple this with decreased Scion presence in the story, and you've got a recipe for success.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

This is kinda Nice.
Civil Discussion.

But amusingly its not about Zero. But...the overall topic did die a while ago.

[Absimiliard]

This is kinda Nice.
Civil Discussion.

But amusingly its not about Zero. But...the overall topic did die a while ago.

Hm. ...Well, I'd bet money we'll be using Zero as a Trust at some point in the near future. There we go. An entirely suppositive tangential connection.

[Kes13a]

Hm. ...Well, I'd bet money we'll be using Zero as a Trust at some point in the near future. There we go. An entirely suppositive tangential connection.

they could add a herd of chocobos to trusts for all it matters. never plan on using that part of the game. so, I still get the feeling of fighting alongside random adventurers lol

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Hm. ...Well, I'd bet money we'll be using Zero as a Trust at some point in the near future. There we go. An entirely suppositive tangential connection.

w00tw00t we did it team!

But on a serious note, I think I can bet that 6.3 our next Dungeon will have her as a Trust.
Vtra will tank/dps, Y'shtola will Heal/dps, and Estinian and Zero will be dps.
Im curious though if the next 2 fiends will be an Eden Garuda and Ifrit situation (whoops, there I go now not talking about Zero)

[SassyAssassin]

I feel the same way, I thought Estinien and Zero would have opened up to eachother in a way they wouldn’t with any other npcs or even us.
I don’t know why they push Yshtola so much in game, the only thing I can imagine is because she might be popular in the Japanese community since they even made an overpriced doll of her instead of any others.

[Absimiliard]

I feel the same way, I thought Estinien and Zero would have opened up to eachother in a way they wouldn’t with any other npcs or even us. I don’t know why they push Yshtola so much in game, the only thing I can imagine is because she might be popular in the Japanese community since they even made an overpriced doll of her instead of any others.

So whatever happened to that whole Y'shtola using up her own life to see thing? It's likely the lore wasn't quite so fleshed out back then as what we have now with regards to aether, but it seems fairly likely this would mean she'd been using her spiritual aether to see. Physical aether regenerates, so using that ought not eat lifespan. So uh... salty cat lady die when?

they could add a herd of chocobos to trusts for all it matters. never plan on using that part of the game. so, I still get the feeling of fighting alongside random adventurers lol

They're all red, named Comet, and have friendly fire enabled. ....And for some reason they always attack you instead of enemies.

w00tw00t we did it team!

But on a serious note, I think I can bet that 6.3 our next Dungeon will have her as a Trust.
Vtra will tank/dps, Y'shtola will Heal/dps, and Estinian and Zero will be dps.
Im curious though if the next 2 fiends will be an Eden Garuda and Ifrit situation (whoops, there I go now not talking about Zero)

I'm hoping they decide to handle it the FFIV way. By which I mean we fight each fiend one at a time, before finally re-fighting all four of them simultaneously in a single encounter at or near the end of our little foray into the Void.