What Zero Could've Been

[aveyond-dreams]

So you’re mad about this strong woman trope. I can guarantee you’d be on here complaining about if the new character was a damsel in distress trope. It’s all subjective and everything has been done before

If it's done badly? Of course. They need to figure out what it is that makes heroines like Garnet, Yuna, Aerith, etc compelling and likeable. As if I haven't already explained just why and how those characters worked several times over. Zero's role could've easily been taken over by a male in the cast, she may as well be a male Viera given her facial appearance, but I suppose for now I'll have to deal with Vrtra's whining about his sister instead.

[Yencat]

If by 7.0 Zero doesn't get a 'She's All That' level make over from Tataru and doesn't breasts boobily down the stairs to seduce Estinien into tying his hair into a very masculine, manly ponytail this game is as good as dead.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

They need to figure out what it is that makes heroines like Garnet, Yuna, Aerith, etc compelling and likeable.

No they don't.
This isn't FFVII, FFIX or FFX. Those are 3 completely different games, with different settings and different storylines.
FFXIV is not any of those games, it has a much different setting and characters; Stronger characters that dont need saving and arnt just cute flowers in dresses, its Female character arnt cute things that you need to protect. Frankly, FFXIV is better for it.

[Alaray]

Nothing that I have said is sexist, no matter how much you are eager to throw around the term. We didn't need another "wow she's so strong and cool" sort of party member, both FFXIV and modern media in general is oversaturated with this sort of thing and it's exhausting.

anime and things heavily derived from anime tropes, archetypes, story structure etc... do tend to have "strong and cool" as a popular character archetype, it's not that out of place tbqh. there's a boatload of male characters one could ascribe those same traits to, in the same game, as well; if we're willing to boil them down to their constituent parts.

zero has, also, only existed for one segment of story and despite how one may subjectively feel about the presentation of character, it does fit her narrative for where she's come from and what she's known so far. subjectively you can hold whichever opinion you want to hold, but to frame it as objectivity borne from anecdotal data is farcical.

there's a lot left unwritten for her character, and i feel like it's premature to make snap judgments without the actual character's journey and narrative leaving the intro page. good faith analysis requires more of the narrative to unfold, to where the direction, theming and characterization actually... exist.

that said, i also find the "endearing, sympathetic" woman archetype is far more overused and trite as a base concept due to the saturation of it in media at this point in time (and, heavily in the past). and that's an opinion of equal subjective value to your own. the phone notes app thing in the op didn't really sell me on your alternative, as it's just a different common flavor you prefer in contrast to me.

can se write her poorly? well, yeah. there's a bunch of things in game i consider poor either in lapse of judgment, failure of due diligence to responsibly research the stories they may derive other story beats from, patterns of story-telling that feel out of place and one-sided in application and so on and so forth. do i hope they manage to write her well? of course. time will tell.

[PawPaw]

If by 7.0 Zero doesn't get a 'She's All That' level make over from Tataru and doesn't breasts boobily down the stairs to seduce Estinien into tying his hair into a very masculine, manly ponytail this game is as good as dead.

Would Estinien even be manly enough to be worthy of Zero's new look and boobily breasts? He is a lanky, slim elf, after all. With very few bulging muscles and absolutely no facial hair .

[IkaraGreydancer]

If it's done badly? Of course. They need to figure out what it is that makes heroines like Garnet, Yuna, Aerith, etc compelling and likeable. As if I haven't already explained just why and how those characters worked several times over. Zero's role could've easily been taken over by a male in the cast, she may as well be a male Viera given her facial appearance, but I suppose for now I'll have to deal with Vrtra's whining about his sister instead.

Every role in this game could be filled by the opposite sex so why is that even a point? Hell we are walking proof of this. Also "she may as well be a man with how she looks"...you really don't see the issue here? Stuff like that is why folks label you the way they do dude.
Garnet, Yuna, Aerith and Zero are liked by many of the same people including myself despite all of em being vastly different.

Also if Vrtra's concern for his sister is considered "whining" that tells me you have no desire to see things any deeper than the surface. And that fact (yes I'm calling it a fact) is present throughout many of your takes.

I'm just gonna say it. No strong man has an issue with strong women. In fact it SHOULD be encouraged imo.

[Hurlstone]

No they don't.
This isn't FFVII, FFIX or FFX. Those are 3 completely different games, with different settings and different storylines.
FFXIV is not any of those games, it has a much different setting and characters; Stronger characters that dont need saving and arnt just cute flowers in dresses, its Female character arnt cute things that you need to protect. Frankly, FFXIV is better for it.

I very much agree agree. It feels silly to compared any FF game to another, as despite some base similarities they all hold different themes and stories. Not to mention that they are single, mostly one-off stories whilst FFXIV has an ongoing, evolving narrative that has the opportunity to constantly add new layers to these characters. The Scions of ARR are very different to the ones in Shadowbringers, and all the better for it I say.

As Aerith is my favourite FF character of all time though, I feel I should say that female characters can still be strong even if they are ‘cute flowers in a dress’. Aerith may not be on the front lines hitting perverts over the head with a chair 24/7 (Although when she is, she is amazing doing it) but she is a really well written, charming character. In the Remake especially, I feel they gave her a lot more agency on top of that (Its also nice how her and Tifa actually bond, rather then get reduced to jealous rivals). However a lot of RPGS are indeed very guilty of having women be the ‘protected’ support class that is only there as part of the main male characters development, and FF is no exception to that.

[Yencat]

Would Estinien even be manly enough to be worthy of Zero's new look and boobily breasts? He is a lanky, slim elf, after all. With very few bulging muscles and absolutely no facial hair .

The masculine, manly ponytail™ will have its own beard and bulging muscles. The masculine, manly ponytail™ also absolutely does not sloppily eat burgers.

If what I'm reading in this thread is correct then even if you dock a point for his thin, villainous lips that should be more than enough to where she will at least have to be nice to him.

[RukoBoshi]

I really don't understand this angle about Vrtra "whining" about his sister. She disappeared thousands of years ago, in the meantime he led his own nation (and did pretty good at it, compared to the rest of the world).

He tried to rescue her, but quickly abandoned because he decided to make his people come first.

And now he has an opportunity to try to save her, i don't see how he is whining ?
Even in the void i don't remember him getting annoying with his mentions of his sister.
He simply ask details to the voidsent he saw.

Nidhogg was way more "whiny" about his sister (with good reason i conceid).
Vrtra have a complete personality and goals that doesn't around his sister, it is simply his present goal and reason to accompany us.

[MagiusNecros]

Would Estinien even be manly enough.

He isn't Zenos Galvus so probably not. On the other hand Zero runs like a man. A male Hyur to be exact and also is a surfboard.