Yoshida's post about p8s nerf and job balancement

[Somnolence]

Which is hilarious when you consider the implications of that statement.

The dev team seemingly believes Dragoon and Ninja are among the hardest jobs in the game. They must also believe Dark Knight is considerably harder than Paladin and that ever Melee is harder than Black Mage. If it wasn't an official Lodestone post, I'd have thought this statement came from a certain subreddit/twitter after being photoshopped. It genuinely makes you question if they actually do play their own game.

Do devs consider DNC harder than MCH? These kinds of explanations just invite more questions than answers, since job difficulty cannot be an input for job balance if it cannot be converted into a metric.

[Keichi]

This right here ultimately killed my motivation to play the game anymore, they're basically admitting my main class (ranged) will never be on par with other melee jobs. I've always mained ranged/archer/engineer type classes in every mmo I've ever played and this is the first mmo in my 20 year gaming life I've seen the devs balance the jobs around its so called "difficulty" of classes and I literally can not believe they're actually going with this. Did we ask for ranged to be brain dead easy? no, thanks for forcing that upon us then telling us we're not good enough.

But that is complatly clear, rthat the physical ranger will never equal to meele.
Meele can not attack some enemys at some points, because of close aoe. And have non or only weak distance attacks and need certain positions for full dmg (and whe know, how often the enemys are turning arounds).

Casters have to be above physically rangers, because they can not attack by some enemys, because of many movements.

Physically ranger can attacks the whole time from each distance and have no drawbacks. So, it is clear, that they need to be weaker as the others for balancing. They are like mg. Countless of shooting but with weaker bullets.
That it is bad, when you have to many physically ranger in the party is the only logical bad thing of this.

Would they be equal to caster or meele, than, there would be any need to play meele or casters.
You could be allways in safe distance and attacking the whole time, with the same dmg. That would meen, that the group wouldnt use meele, who need positions for the full dmg or casters, who are slower than ranger.

[Velthice]

But that is complatly clear, rthat the physical ranger will never equal to meele.
Meele can not attack some enemys at some points

I dunno where you've been homie, but this argument pretty much died when hitboxes went from this:


To this:


If anyone is losing GCDs nowadays, it's very likely that EVERYONE is losing that GCD because the boss is invincible/untargetable/etc...

[MagiusNecros]

I dunno where you've been homie, but this argument pretty much died when hitboxes went from this:

That's pretty funny. No wonder positionals are fucked.

[Elena_Farron]

The root cause of the issue was a mistake in balancing the duty.
An immediate fix that maintains role balance was required.

So the problem was the boss hp, and the role balance is perfectly fine? lol.

I think everyone would have been perfectly fine with the way the dps check was balanced before the nerf if all compositions had an equal chance at clearing it.

[rewd]

That's my 2 cents on the topic. Regardless, I don't have much hope for casters.

If this is the design philosophy they want to keep, I have no idea how we are supposed to get the likely new caster job in 7.0. It would make an already precarious situation even worse.

[Altera]

I am also wondering where BLMs fit into this as I have tried just checking PFs and tried applying to savage statics and very often in PFs, I see people deny BLMs from joining and trying to join a group, as a BLM i had to go through more hoops than any other jobs I tried applying as.

And when seeing Ultimate raiders post number/ranking of each Jobs, BLM is around 6th place, behind NIN SAM DRG RPR MNK by about 700-1000dps and BLM was virtually tied with SMN MCH, then the other jobs trailing a bit behind from there

I have not seen anyone deny any other Jobs than BLM. Why is that?

[CKNovel]

I feel like Yoshida completely misunderstood the community complain
Everyone felt that the DPS check was very tight but the community mainly said that tight DPS check are okay but not in combination of terrible job balance.

There are also point that aren't adressed:

1. Why are some jobs, within the same role, underperforming when they bring less support? Taking MCH and DNC or SMN and RDM.
   This contradicts:
   "When balancing jobs, each job’s base damage numbers at the applicable item level are adjusted with respect to the difficulty of playing that particular job and its rotation, as well as its support actions and their effects."
   Regardless of each encounter mechanics, those jobs are underperforming when competing against much more mobile or usefull support in all available battle.
   
   
2. Why the massive discrepancy between ranged, caster and melee when every encounter is designed for garanteed melee uptime?
   This speaks for itself, there is a massive melee catering during this expac. (see P7S and P8Sp2 in which all mechanics are solved within the boss hitbox)
   
   
3. Considering the 2nd question, what is going to evolve? Job design or raid design?
   I believe this is a very important question now that ranged and melee jobs plays exactly the same.
   
   
4. How is the 2 min burst meta going to evolve? There are numerous feedback that it's not enjoyable and kills jobs creativity.
   
   
5. Why is the job balance feedback ignored? It's been since 6.1 that the community asks for some jobs getting buff.
   Those jobs never received buffs and those are the very same that are struggling today.
   I can understand that "adjusting all jobs in such a short period is also not feasible" but the feedback is there since April.
   

We're once again in this situation because feedback was ignored and problems were shoved under a rug.
I understand the good will to communicate with the community

[Aikaal]

I feel like Yoshida completely misunderstood the community complain
Everyone felt that the DPS check was very tight but the community mainly said that tight DPS check are okay but not in combination of terrible job balance.

There are also point that aren't adressed:
[LIST=1][*]Why are some jobs, within the same role, underperforming when they bring less support? Taking MCH and DNC or SMN and RDM.
This contradicts:
"When balancing jobs, each job’s base damage numbers at the applicable item level are adjusted with respect to the difficulty of playing that particular job and its rotation, as well as its support actions and their effects."
Regardless of each encounter mechanics, those jobs are underperforming when competing against much more mobile or usefull support in all available battle.

I do feel SMN and RDM are really close to each other with SMN being slightly higher right now but essentially it depends on the fight. I spam Ruin III before Ego Death which results in a much worst DPS than RDM for the second P8S boss. However, there's no question that SMN>RDM on the door boss and since door boss provides a bigger DPS challenge, SMN>RDM in that fight.

Of all 5 bosses. I desync from buff windows 3 out of 5 fights. The game is designed about burst and yet jobs that are too rigid get heavily punished from that concept.