Tales from the Dawn #4: "A Question of Death" (Jullus)

[SentioftheHoukai]

The Garleans conquered people and regions in Ilsabard, Othard, and Aldenard that were not Garlean (even Corvos was pointed out in-game contrary to Garlean claims to have people that claimed it as a homeland long before the Garleans and whom were still living there when the Garleans invaded). The Garleans actively engaged in cultural erasure; that’s one of their Empire’s core characteristics (and the first religion and traditional government and practices like Jobs that was suppressed was their own). So yes, that the other conquered Garlean regions will be like Dalmasca, Doma, Werlyt, Bozja, Corvos, Ala Mhigo, and Xangia is something I will be pleased with. And they all have rightful reason to resent their conquerors or not, and there is a plethora of ways to take the story of their liberations and how they chart their post-Imperial freedom. Landros for example tried to conquer its neighbors and be Imperial Garlemald lite. The countries aligned with the Scions, so far, haven’t. And the Scion-allied Eorzean Alliance is right now in Garlemald itself explicitly to protect the Garleans there from being exploited or invaded by others. Time will tell if that effort is successful or continues. Or what stories FFXIV wishes to tell outside its borders, if it’s not a rehash of what’s already been done with all of Stormblood, Ivalice, Bozja, and Werlyt.

Ah, whataboutisms and "they deserved it, for they were the oppressors not us, never us."

You love to see it.~ ;3

Frankly, it doesn't matter if Garlemald didn't live in Corvos first. What matters is that they lived there, and we have evidence they were pushed out by violence fueled by envy. What we do not have evidence for, is that they conquered to get in. Not the first time. But I waste my breath, for I speak to the same manner of poster who'd try and rationalize that the displaced pre-Empire Garleans had no right to hold a grudge, build an Empire, and do unto others what was done to them.

And so I inquire, where is that attitude and rationalization now? Now that the coin hath been flipped, where is the forgiveness, the insight, the mercy?

The FORGE AHEAD~

Did it go somewhere? Or perhaps, was it never there to begin with?

[AwesomeJr44]

And they all have rightful reason to resent their conquerors or not

If only people extended the same logic to the Garleans and realized that the Garleans were treated like trash before they were forced up into a barren wasteland in the north. I wonder if people would thus extend the same treatment they give Garlemald to other nations and say that they deserved what they got from Garlemald and that Garlemald has a rightful reason to resent them...

Garleans: *get oppressed*
Fora Knights: Good! You deserve it! Forge ahead losers!
Any other nation: *get oppressed*
Fora Knights: Those dang Garleans!!!

The FORGE AHEAD~

*clears throat* "FoOoOOooORRRrrrrRrGgGGGgEEeEeeE AhhHhhHhhEeeEEeAaaAAaaDDDdDddD!!!!!!!"

[4clubbedace]

The Garleans conquered people and regions in Ilsabard, Othard, and Aldenard that were not Garlean (even Corvos was pointed out in-game contrary to Garlean claims to have people that claimed it as a homeland long before the Garleans and whom were still living there when the Garleans invaded). The Garleans actively engaged in cultural erasure; that’s one of their Empire’s core characteristics (and the first religion and traditional government and practices like Jobs that was suppressed was their own). So yes, that the other conquered Garlean regions will be like Dalmasca, Doma, Werlyt, Bozja, Corvos, Ala Mhigo, and Xangia is something I will be pleased with. And they all have rightful reason to resent their conquerors or not, and there is a plethora of ways to take the story of their liberations and how they chart their post-Imperial freedom. Landros for example tried to conquer its neighbors and be Imperial Garlemald lite. The countries aligned with the Scions, so far, haven’t. And the Scion-allied Eorzean Alliance is right now in Garlemald itself explicitly to protect the Garleans there from being exploited or invaded by others. Time will tell if that effort is successful or continues. Or what stories FFXIV wishes to tell outside its borders, if it’s not a rehash of what’s already been done with all of Stormblood, Ivalice, Bozja, and Werlyt.

half and half

the garleans were native to the island that had the clocktower in the ivalice raids, which in its all, is a hume/garlean story, itself being close proximity to corvos. Corvos had people there from when allag fell. Its noted that garleans were rather a weak people UNTILL the empire. Till then garleans for a few centuries came to know corvos home like others but at a certain point, were pushed out from this area but unlike others, could not use magic or aether and could not defend themselves without turning to voidsent. The garleans themselves had their resentment used by the ascians , emet himself to cause that destruction the empire later caused, it was always going to end with a massive civil war or garlmald imploding. they have no leadership, no government, no military.

[AwesomeJr44]

So yes, As it was stated in game already, nobody cares about making the Garleans suffer.

Wasn't there a massive plot point in the Garlemald section of the MSQ about how literally everyone wanted to just kill the Garleans and the Scions had to convince them not to? And I'm pretty sure that even though the Eorzeans in the contingent there got over that (and even then, not entirely), you still have... *checks notes* literally everyone else still wanting to.

[Theodric]

Wasn't there a massive plot point in the Garlemald section of the MSQ about how literally everyone wanted to just kill the Garleans and the Scions had to convince them not to? And I'm pretty sure that even though the Eorzeans in the contingent there got over that (and even then, not entirely), you still have... *checks notes* literally everyone else still wanting to.

We also saw it with the end of the Dragonsong War with many Ishgardians still desiring vengeance for their fallen and working from the shadows to undermine attempts at forging peace with the Dravanians.

We also see it in the present day in our world with people using social media to rant about things that happened before they were even born and demanding 'retribution' and 'reparations' from people who have no direct ties to the supposed misdeeds in question.

[thegreatonemal]

Wasn't there a massive plot point in the Garlemald section of the MSQ about how literally everyone wanted to just kill the Garleans and the Scions had to convince them not to? And I'm pretty sure that even though the Eorzeans in the contingent there got over that (and even then, not entirely), you still have... *checks notes* literally everyone else still wanting to.

Might wanna read those quest again. I know you have trouble with that and I see you still haven't managed it but I shall implore you to read it again. Nobody in game said what you said. They did say the opposite though, considering the contingent's primary purpose was providing aid to the Garleans.

As for the story itself it was good. I'm more interested in the state and affairs of all the former occupied nations and how they will get on but it is nice to know that the Garleans have some hope.

[Absimiliard]

Might wanna read those quest again. I know you have trouble with that and I see you still haven't managed it but I shall implore you to read it again. Nobody in game said what you said. They did say the opposite though, considering the contingent's primary purpose was providing aid to the Garleans.

Did we not read the same quest text? Because there were definitely several points where individuals in positions of power indicated a desire to deal rather..... harshly, we'll say, with the Garlean survivors.

[AwesomeJr44]

They did say the opposite though, considering the contingent's primary purpose was providing aid to the Garleans.

Who said that? The scions and their close friends? The people who had to convince literally everyone else in the contingent to not kill the Garleans? Oh wow, I didn't know that, thank you Great Oatmeal. What great information. The people not looking to kill the Garleans and thus went and convinced everyone else to not kill them... weren't the ones trying to kill the Garleans. I was wrong when I read the story that said the Eorzean leaders sent the contingent to Garlemald to help the Garleans but most of the contingent just wanted to kill said Garleans. My apologies, I will be sure to refer to your version of events next time. I gotta say, this is some next level intelligence coming from Oatmeal guys, I think we should try eating some of the oats too, they seem to give lots of intelligence. /s

Gee golly, it's almost like the people IN the contingent didn't share the same opinion as its leaders.

(Might wanna fix the 'Gridinia' spelling. I know you have trouble with spelling it and I see you still haven't managed it but I shall implore you to try it again.)

Did we not read the same quest text? Because there were definitely several points where individuals in positions of power indicated a desire to deal rather..... harshly, we'll say, with the Garlean survivors.

Uh, you see, Oatmeal has this special power that when he eats his oats, he can see parts of the story that we mere mortals cannot. His oat vision allows him to see extra lines of dialogue that are beyond our comprehension.

The devs aren't leery of real-world parallels, they just see things through rather black-and-white lenses lately which is ultimately a detriment to their storytelling.

Case in point, Venat. Venat is a morally gray character that can be compared to real world figures that commit horrible crimes against humanity for the 'greater good', yet the writers cannot see things past a very black and white perspective. Ignore the screeching of SannaR as they get mad that someone said the V word.

[KariTheFox]

I feel like in order to be appealing targets for invasion, the Garleans need to not only be weak, but also have a resource that is worth going to war for.

The land of Garlemald isn't very valuable for farmland, and the big cerulean deposits they're sitting on are not going to be in high demand without the Garlean Empire's war machine.

Also, doing so now would mean souring diplomatic relations with Sharlayan, Thavanair, and the Eorzean Alliance, not a good idea really.

[Theodric]

I feel like in order to be appealing targets for invasion, the Garleans need to not only be weak, but also have a resource that is worth going to war for.

The land of Garlemald isn't very valuable for farmland, and the big cerulean deposits they're sitting on are not going to be in high demand without the Garlean Empire's war machine.

Also, doing so now would mean souring diplomatic relations with Sharlayan, Thavanair, and the Eorzean Alliance, not a good idea really.

The Garleans were attacked even over those scant resources as outlined in the reaper job quests:



Furthermore, ceruleum is an incredibly valuable resource that can only be found in specific places - and all signs are pointing to many nations embracing magitek to a greater degree even when accounting for purely non-military pursuits.