Online Store is Getting Worse!

[Saraide]

And shameless too!! Because we told them about this so many times the past few months.

I'll be accused of doomsaying, but honestly, Endwalker's being a downright mess. Square, your good will ran out when you delayed Early Access. Then it ran out when you blamed Early Access's server overloading on user network. Then it ran out on Hrothgar ears and hairstyles. And then ir ran out when Housing was dead on launch. Just... Can you please start thinking before committing stuff to the market? We know you guys ran on Agile Development, you're just doing it very poorly at this point!



How bad is it that my immediate reaction to the crap these hoods have (glitched hands on Lalafell animations, removal of racial traits, turning people into nuns by hiding their hair) was a big, fat, shameless...

"...alright, so modders are gonna fix this, easily"

I don't want to condone mods. I really don't. But man, Square's just making it way too easy.



Yeah, the "protest with your wallet" thing never really works. Someone will always take the bait.

Which only makes this thing sting even harder ngl. People pay for this. On top of their own sub and possible additional retainers.



People defended the crap treatment Hrothgars had in 6.1, trust me, they'll defend it so blindly we'll need to redefine the term White Knight.

Like, imagine Square will lock their next food emote behind 50$ but make it only work on Hyurs. Somehow making it that if Au Ra try it, their horns disappear for some alien reason. You just know people will gobble that up and defend it like crazy.

Because the real problem with people like those is that they constantly move the goalpost. People really need to make it clear where they draw the line, and someone will always be there to push the line further.

Au ra horns disappearing? that would never happen! oh wait reaper exists...

[IkaraGreydancer]

Maybe I'm just weird but the game alone provides far more than mogstation ever will and with that in mind I don't see the issue here.

Mogstation is far removed from the game and isn't shoved in your face by any means. So if this is deemed predatory is on the lowest scale. If the cost is to high for you for whatever reason do what I and many others do and simply don't buy it

[Illmaeran]

Mogstation is far removed from the game and isn't shoved in your face by any means. So if this is deemed predatory is on the lowest scale. If the cost is to high for you for whatever reason do what I and many others do and simply don't buy it

I'll argue that it's not predatory at all and people are using the term in a way that doesn't fit this game. Mogstation items are purely optional and cosmetic, and as such give no substantive benefit to the player. Predatory sales tactics are those in which the developer intentionally makes items that give substantive benefits to the player and design the game in such a way that said benefits are necessary to play the game at a more than sub-standard level. Predatory is a "create a problem then sell the solution" situation, or in other terms, design the game so the player is forced to spend money to make up for design deficiencies. In addition to that, having monetization schemes where the currency the person buys is in portions that are either insufficient or way more than is needed to buy items; forcing the player to spend much more than is necessary to get said item.

This game has plenty of items, emotes, mounts, minions, and dyes available strictly though in-game activities that one need not buy anything to get full benefit from their game purchase and subscription. If SE want to charge a premium price for luxury items that's up to them. It's up to the player to decide if that item is worth the price, aka has value to them. It may be distasteful to many to have a cash shop in a game that requires a purchase and subscription, but it's in now way predatory.


As a previous poster said; Mogstation purchases subsidize people who don't buy from it as the extra revenue helps keep sub costs down. Think what you will of people who buy Mogstation stuff, have extra retainers, or both, but realize they're the ones keeping your sub from hitting the $15 per month standard of other subscription models out there.

[Bukachu]

I'll argue that it's not predatory at all and people are using the term in a way that doesn't fit this game. Mogstation items are purely optional and cosmetic, and as such give no substantive benefit to the player. Predatory sales tactics are those in which the developer intentionally makes items that give substantive benefits to the player and design the game in such a way that said benefits are necessary to play the game at a more than sub-standard level. Predatory is a "create a problem then sell the solution" situation, or in other terms, design the game so the player is forced to spend money to make up for design deficiencies. In addition to that, having monetization schemes where the currency the person buys is in portions that are either insufficient or way more than is needed to buy items; forcing the player to spend much more than is necessary to get said item.

This game has plenty of items, emotes, mounts, minions, and dyes available strictly though in-game activities that one need not buy anything to get full benefit from their game purchase and subscription. If SE want to charge a premium price for luxury items that's up to them. It's up to the player to decide if that item is worth the price, aka has value to them. It may be distasteful to many to have a cash shop in a game that requires a purchase and subscription, but it's in now way predatory.


As a previous poster said; Mogstation purchases subsidize people who don't buy from it as the extra revenue helps keep sub costs down. Think what you will of people who buy Mogstation stuff, have extra retainers, or both, but realize they're the ones keeping your sub from hitting the $15 per month standard of other subscription models out there.

Isnt sub 15 euros? am I stupid for paying that much?

[Saraide]

I'll argue that it's not predatory at all and people are using the term in a way that doesn't fit this game. Mogstation items are purely optional and cosmetic, and as such give no substantive benefit to the player. Predatory sales tactics are those in which the developer intentionally makes items that give substantive benefits to the player and design the game in such a way that said benefits are necessary to play the game at a more than sub-standard level. Predatory is a "create a problem then sell the solution" situation, or in other terms, design the game so the player is forced to spend money to make up for design deficiencies. In addition to that, having monetization schemes where the currency the person buys is in portions that are either insufficient or way more than is needed to buy items; forcing the player to spend much more than is necessary to get said item.

This game has plenty of items, emotes, mounts, minions, and dyes available strictly though in-game activities that one need not buy anything to get full benefit from their game purchase and subscription. If SE want to charge a premium price for luxury items that's up to them. It's up to the player to decide if that item is worth the price, aka has value to them. It may be distasteful to many to have a cash shop in a game that requires a purchase and subscription, but it's in now way predatory.


As a previous poster said; Mogstation purchases subsidize people who don't buy from it as the extra revenue helps keep sub costs down. Think what you will of people who buy Mogstation stuff, have extra retainers, or both, but realize they're the ones keeping your sub from hitting the $15 per month standard of other subscription models out there.

The "just cosmetics" argument is complete nonsense. The biggest most sought after rewards in this game are all cosmetic in nature, ilvl holds very little value in the long term. Ultimate weapons, relics and savage gear are primarily useful as glams, savage mounts are purely cosmetic.

[Illmaeran]

Isnt sub 15 euros? am I stupid for paying that much?

I don't know what a sub costs in Euros, but I don't think you're stupid for paying it if you enjoy playing the game.

The "just cosmetics" argument is complete nonsense. The biggest most sought after rewards in this game are all cosmetic in nature, ilvl holds very little value in the long term. Ultimate weapons, relics and savage gear are primarily useful as glams, savage mounts are purely cosmetic.

The point of the paragraph you quoted from is that the Mogstation is not predatory, given the context of what I said in that paragraph. Purely optional and cosmetic, not "just cosmetics". I disagree that the argument of mogstation items being optional and cosmetic in nature is nonsense. I agree that the items most desirable over the long term are so due to their cosmetic potential. Reading between the lines, I get the message that because things in the game are highly sought after for their cosmetic qualities the Mogstation is a bad thing because it sells items for cosmetic purposes; therefore, making the sale of things bad because people do in-game activities to get cosmetic items. Am I understanding that correctly?

On the topic of mounts, I agree that they are a cosmetic thing. Given how a person acquires them, they give visual proof that the person riding it has accomplished something in the game; whether that be trials, dungeons, PoTD, or what have you. We know that someone on the Nightmare mount has put in the time and effort to get it and we respect the player for that. We also know that someone riding the Megashiba bought it and as such, don't hold that player in regard the same way we do a player with the Nightmare mount. Yes, both are cosmetic, but I would argue their cosmetic importance is based on the mode of acquisition, not the mount itself.

The sort of item you referred to are all available in the game, through in-game actions, and are not sold on the Mogstation. Also, some of the items in question, such as armor and weapons, have substantive benefit to the player. We're not seeing items that provide anything other than cosmetic benefit being sold on the Mogstation. Therefore, the Mogstation doesn't fit the definition of predatory I provided. We may disagree on the definition of predatory, but we must agree that everything sold on the Mogstation is optional, cosmetic in nature, and has no substantive impact on the game, barring the Fenris motorcycle's speed thing.

Which seeing it written down sounds a lot more reasonable (2 bil? Really?) .

The Yen to US dollar conversion is usually around 100:1, so 237 million USD is roughly equal to 237 billion Yen. It's really easy to see the 2 billion and think it's in USD rather than Yen, which is likely the cause of misunderstanding/mis-stating reported income.

[Saraide]

I don't know what a sub costs in Euros, but I don't think you're stupid for paying it if you enjoy playing the game.



The point of the paragraph you quoted from is that the Mogstation is not predatory, given the context of what I said in that paragraph. Purely optional and cosmetic, not "just cosmetics". I disagree that the argument of mogstation items being optional and cosmetic in nature is nonsense. I agree that the items most desirable over the long term are so due to their cosmetic potential. Reading between the lines, I get the message that because things in the game are highly sought after for their cosmetic qualities the Mogstation is a bad thing because it sells items for cosmetic purposes; therefore, making the sale of things bad because people do in-game activities to get cosmetic items. Am I understanding that correctly?

On the topic of mounts, I agree that they are a cosmetic thing. Given how a person acquires them, they give visual proof that the person riding it has accomplished something in the game; whether that be trials, dungeons, PoTD, or what have you. We know that someone on the Nightmare mount has put in the time and effort to get it and we respect the player for that. We also know that someone riding the Megashiba bought it and as such, don't hold that player in regard the same way we do a player with the Nightmare mount. Yes, both are cosmetic, but I would argue their cosmetic importance is based on the mode of acquisition, not the mount itself.

The sort of item you referred to are all available in the game, through in-game actions, and are not sold on the Mogstation. Also, some of the items in question, such as armor and weapons, have substantive benefit to the player. We're not seeing items that provide anything other than cosmetic benefit being sold on the Mogstation. Therefore, the Mogstation doesn't fit the definition of predatory I provided. We may disagree on the definition of predatory, but we must agree that everything sold on the Mogstation is optional, cosmetic in nature, and has no substantive impact on the game, barring the Fenris motorcycle's speed thing.

I think you definition of what qualifies as predatory monetization is a bad one because it only considers pay to win aspects. In reality looking good and showing off is a considerable driving force in any game that allows for customization, the acquisition of that is evidently only one aspect of it. If the acquisition was the only thing that mattered no one would buy mogstation stuff for their looks. It would only be a questionable means to show off wealth. It is then no surprise any greedy salesperson would drive up prices on what people care for most and within their own game they have an absolute monopoly.

You say that everything sold on the mogstation has no substantive impact on the game (excluding the bike) but looking good has a substantive impact on our enjoyment of games in general.

[SturmChurro]

We know that someone on the Nightmare mount has put in the time and effort to get it and we respect the player for that. We also know that someone riding the Megashiba bought it and as such, don't hold that player in regard the same way we do a player with the Nightmare mount. Yes, both are cosmetic, but I would argue their cosmetic importance is based on the mode of acquisition, not the mount itself.

Cosmetic importance is a big factor, otherwise people would literally not buy most cash shop mounts. The mode of acquisition is certainly a factor, but if something that isn't desirable is locked behind a grind, or achievement, less and less people will do it. There will always be collectors and the like out there, but the more aesthetically pleasing something is, generally, plays a big factor. Similarly, if something very desirable is locked behind low chance in a lootbox or the like (gacha games?), for example, people will feel a very similar sense of 'prestige' for having this item.

[Iyrnthota]

Maybe I'm just weird but the game alone provides far more than mogstation ever will and with that in mind I don't see the issue here.

Mogstation is far removed from the game and isn't shoved in your face by any means. So if this is deemed predatory is on the lowest scale. If the cost is to high for you for whatever reason do what I and many others do and simply don't buy it

I won't argue the predatory point, cause I don't think I have the right experience/know how to make a definitive statement on that.

I will argue, however, that is is "shoved in your face". Any time you see a glam someone bought from the Mogstation, it is being advertised to you. Anytime you see a mount you might like that it turns out is Mogstation exclusive, it is being advertised to you. Anytime someone emotes at you using a Mogstation exclusive mount, it is being advertised to you.

The game itself might not splash it across the screen on login as so many other games do, but it is absolutely advertised overtly and persistently in the form of the playerbase that interact with it.

[Kes13a]

I won't argue the predatory point, cause I don't think I have the right experience/know how to make a definitive statement on that.

I will argue, however, that is is "shoved in your face". Any time you see a glam someone bought from the Mogstation, it is being advertised to you. Anytime you see a mount you might like that it turns out is Mogstation exclusive, it is being advertised to you. Anytime someone emotes at you using a Mogstation exclusive mount, it is being advertised to you.

The game itself might not splash it across the screen on login as so many other games do, but it is absolutely advertised overtly and persistently in the form of the playerbase that interact with it.

you must not have to leave your house much, since doing so would have many things "shoved in your face" that you may want only to realize somebody had to buy them at a store. this has to be one of the less well reasoned "takes" on the whole thing.