Warrior potency

[Renathras]

Very low damage, too much utility, healing not designed well, and rotation is very simple. The opposite of what WAR core identity should be.

I can see the damage being low as a problem, but...

How is "too much utility" a bad thing? But that aside, does it have the most utility? I thought PLD had more and arguably DRK?

How is it's healing "not designed well"?

And how is a very simple rotation NOT fitting of an "ungba bunga Hulk smash!" core identity? WAR isn't the big brain, highly skilled/trained man-at-arms. That's...well, literally all the other three tanks - PLDs are highly trained and skilled gladiators, DRK's are arguably pretty skillful with a blade, and GNB's are well trained bodyguards. WAR kinda IS the tank where a very simple rotation is exactly what the core identity should be.

Now, if you meant the core identity thing with low damage/high utility/high healing, that I could see more. I would think the berserker would be the higher damage dealing tank who also has lower defense (but higher HP) to be a bit more meat and a bit less shield, powering through things with brute force and determination. But FFXIV's combat system doesn't do "has higher HP, takes more damage" (though it did in ARR), so that's kind of a gameplay concession.

But I'd think simple rotation, self-healing (think "I'm to angry to give up!" determination/second wind in a fight), those things actually fit the WAR core identity to a T.

[Mithron]

How is "too much utility" a bad thing? But that aside, does it have the most utility? I thought PLD had more and arguably DRK?

How is it's healing "not designed well"?

And how is a very simple rotation NOT fitting of an "ungba bunga Hulk smash!" core identity? WAR isn't the big brain, highly skilled/trained man-at-arms. That's...well, literally all the other three tanks - PLDs are highly trained and skilled gladiators, DRK's are arguably pretty skillful with a blade, and GNB's are well trained bodyguards. WAR kinda IS the tank where a very simple rotation is exactly what the core identity should be.

PLD has the least utility, which is also antithetical to the core identity. WAR should have the least, but highest damage to compensate. That is the job identity. WARs are supposed to be the high damage high risk off tank, berserkers that throw caution to the wind and use reckless abandon. Seeing them have PLD's identity currently (and even the lowest DPS now perhaps) is completely the opposite of what they should be. However I don't think the DPS difference should be greater than 1% between all the tanks, and I don't think they should have such little mitigation that they're shunned, but I want to see WAR at the top of damage, GNB behind them, then DRK and PLD last. I want DRK and PLD to have the best support, mitigation and usable (Clemancy isn't usable) healing. Anything that strays from that is missing the mark on core identity.

Bloodwhetting is extremely powerful in dungeons, and as such they have to make it weaker than most of the other mitigations tanks have in single target boss fights. It's not terrible, it's just okay. But it's really weird being a WAR and thinking "Oh man! Let me heal you!" because that's just not something a WAR should ever think about. WAR should only be thinking about doing damage and have the basic necessary tools to self survive with minimal utility. They should be the "selfish tank," which sadly is PLD currently.

I don't know if you played ARR or HW, but back then WAR was definitely the hardest tank to play but had the most damage. Even pre-Byakko in SB, this was true. It took a lot of effort to make WAR do its real damage, even having to play around a Pacification debuff attached to Berserk that healers had to really pay attention to to maximize their damage. While I don't think they have to go too far into complexity, its current rotation is way, way, way too easy. I don't think any job in the game should be this easy, not even PLD (I'm saying this as PLD/DRK main who specifically has always loved PLD because of how accessible and easy it is).

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

A potency nerf would make it basically useless in any savage fight but still completely overpowered in dungeons. That's the whole issue, Bloodwhetting itself isn't actually that strong, it just scales infinitely with the amount of enemies. If Criterion dungeons keep the mob density of normal dungeons then of course it's going to be strong, in 8man fights however it already isn't any better than Heart of Corundum, in this savage tier it might actually be worse.

Tbh, you're probably wasting your time trying to explain this, it's been said countless times already, and still people regurgitate the same bull about Bloodwhetting is too strong, as a means to prevent WAR get a potency buff, like dungeons even matter lmao

[HyonaCookie]

Tbh, you're probably wasting your time trying to explain this, it's been said countless times already, and still people regurgitate the same bull about Bloodwhetting is too strong, as a means to prevent WAR get a potency buff, like dungeons even matter lmao

Why shouldn't dungeons matter? They're the content everyone does and the majority of ppl keep doing. It's not like the first duty people run into is 8-man stuff when a new expansion comes out. More ppl do dungeons than savage raids, so it makes more sense to balance things around dungeons. No one's gonna keep playing a job to the point they can take it to savage if it can't perform well in dungeons.

[Absurdity]

Why shouldn't dungeons matter? They're the content everyone does and the majority of ppl keep doing. It's not like the first duty people run into is 8-man stuff when a new expansion comes out. More ppl do dungeons than savage raids, so it makes more sense to balance things around dungeons. No one's gonna keep playing a job to the point they can take it to savage if it can't perform well in dungeons.

It shouldn't matter because dungeons are an absolute joke. Bloodwhetting in dungeons doesn't matter because you don't need it to completely steamroll this content with your brain turned off, Dark Knight/Gunbreaker/Paladin can do it just as easily.

Jobs are balanced around 8-man high end content because it is the only content where balance actually matters, the only content where not beating it in X amount of time leads to guaranteed failure, where mechanics do just straight up kill you if you do them wrong. They absolutely shouldn't be balanced around content where your performance is literally irrelevant and you can just whack a boss for 20 minutes to win, this includes both normal and alliance raids as well.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Why shouldn't dungeons matter? They're the content everyone does and the majority of ppl keep doing. It's not like the first duty people run into is 8-man stuff when a new expansion comes out. More ppl do dungeons than savage raids, so it makes more sense to balance things around dungeons. No one's gonna keep playing a job to the point they can take it to savage if it can't perform well in dungeons.

While answered above quite fairly by Tiana and I agree 100% with them, but also if the devs actually considered dungeon for balance, then every single job would also have at least their first AoE spammable weaponskill /spell before the very first dungeon. But pretty much dungeons are not even remotely difficult, trash is more threatening than the actual bosses...

So regarding this statement, "No one's gonna keep playing a job to the point they can take it to savage if it can't perform well in dungeons." it is factually incorrect because:

DRK technically plays the worst in dungeons, more so in the hands of players that haven't a clue how to rotate their cooldowns correctly / efficiently, and will struggle, while the other three tanks are easier to manage, yet in Savage DRK is an absolute beast strongest damage mitigating tank, and strongest DPSing tank.

On the flip side, PLD and WAR are super strong in dungeons, especially compared to DRK, yet both jobs were recently excluded from the latest raid tier in PFs for p8s.

So you might wanna rethink that one.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

PLD has the least utility...

How? You really need to quantify this statement, because PLD has two raid mitigation abilities to the other tanks' one, a spammable targeted heal, and Cover (lol). I won't mention the nuances of Intervention, since each tank has a counterpart ability with its own nuances that make it better or worse than the others in certain situations.

(Clemancy isn't usable)

Yes it is. Only bad players who are only able to fixate on the ideal run make claims like this. Now, I wouldn't say Clemency is even good, but it's far from "not usable."

[Mithron]

How? You really need to quantify this statement, because PLD has two raid mitigation abilities to the other tanks' one, a spammable targeted heal, and Cover (lol). I won't mention the nuances of Intervention, since each tank has a counterpart ability with its own nuances that make it better or worse than the others in certain situations.

Yes it is. Only bad players who are only able to fixate on the ideal run make claims like this. Now, I wouldn't say Clemency is even good, but it's far from "not usable."

PLD has the worst mitigation. PLD offers a short damage reduction on another player with Intervention, and a 250 potency regen over 12 seconds. The other 3 tanks have better buttons. Divine Veil is certainly okay, but Shake It Off is superior in multiple ways.

Only bads think Clemancy is usable when it's a massive DPS loss to PLD's already terrible DPS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you're in a position to use Clemancy, you've either already wiped or are doing easy content that doesn't really matter. I'd rather a WAR throw Bloodwhetting up instead of a PLD Clemancy me because I know they're sacrificing so much DPS for it. Then you have wings, which again, not particularly usable for DPS loss and I'm not even sure it works on all boss transitions.

Cover is novel, but since they removed Cover HG how often do you actually get to use it in relevant content?

[Rithy255]

How? You really need to quantify this statement, because PLD has two raid mitigation abilities to the other tanks' one, a spammable targeted heal, and Cover (lol). I won't mention the nuances of Intervention, since each tank has a counterpart ability with its own nuances that make it better or worse than the others in certain situations.



Yes it is. Only bad players who are only able to fixate on the ideal run make claims like this. Now, I wouldn't say Clemency is even good, but it's far from "not usable."

I think my opinion on PLD's utility is more or less, too situational having 2 party wides (3 really on pld as other tanks also get 2 with the role action "reprisal") is good? But generally nothing to write home about considering Divine veil is a bit clunky requiring a GCD heal to even activate, it also doesn't effect you for no reason, Passage is good but only when it lines up (Yes you can flash it but people have to be directly behind you so its way more annoying then any other tank cd), Cover is a complete Joke, Clemency is fine as it is personally but clemency in it's current state doesn't really need to "tax" PLD on anything like GNBs Aurora, Oblation on drk or equilibrium on war, as all of those abilities have more general use then clemency? (I don't really know if they compare but PLD lacks two general mits), Another thing is PLD's strong self healing is restricted to your rotation instead of something you can control, Also with intervention it's just worse holy shelltron while other tanks get the same or a better effect from using it on yourself.

I generally agree clemency isn't useless, it's great in situations it's even helped me before get further in ext fights and learn more mechs faster, even then I don't think it hurts PLD to keep it for solo content and such.

My main gripe with the Idea of pld being "utility tank" is the fact that some of it's utility is very outdated or super situational, with its raid wides i just want general touch ups to make them less janky I get that some of those points don't effect PLD at the highest level, but I generally want those sorts of abilities to be touched up, cover to be reworked. ECT.