[Machinist] What is going on?

[Kosachi]

TBH, I think trying to balance a pure DPS class while being a pranged is a fool's endeavor since those two things are kinda antithetical because of the Ranged Tax (Which needs to go if fight design stays like this). Easiest fix for now until they can get something more concrete is to give MCH Dismantle, Rend Mind and Hypercharge back to at least begin to make up for what it's lacking. Probably won't be enough but that's honestly all I can think of. They really dug themselves into a hole with this one.

[Avoidy]

The "job complexity" argument is nonsensical and I'm tired of hearing it. Is MCH easy to pick up and learn? Yes. Should that stop it from fulfilling its role as a selfish dps job and shitting out damage? Absolutely not. Look at SAM. Just look at it. This job has been reduced to a hollow shell of its former self, spamming its various 123s and dumping its resource gauge on shinten because it literally has nothing else to do, yet it's shitting out damage because that's its entire purpose. When I want to play melee but not think too hard, I hop off of NIN and play SAM because imo it's one of the easiest jobs in the game right now. Hell, look at SMN. Arguably the dumbest job in the entire game atm, but it outpaces RDM. Complexity doesn't matter. You might want it to. You might feel like it's not fair that a job that puts forth almost 0 effort can shit on your monumental 200IQ plays. But the devs don't care about complexity. They think it's fine for an easy job to do really really well.

Unless that job is MCH.

[AmiBeau]

Don't you think your output would be much more valuable if you experienced the whole tier?
P5S can be passed quite easily regardless of the DPS.

There should be no gate keeping here. Whether I experience one fight of the tier or the entire tier, I can still identify issues with the class I play. I addressed them, and laid out ways to possibly fix the issues to bring them more in line with other pure dps classes.

[CKNovel]

Currently MCH is my main this tier; I don't think it's NEARLY as bad as people are making it out to be TBH. While at the end of the fight I might find myself in 3rd or 4th on the totem pole, most of the fight I am well within the other 3 DPS we are bringing to the savage tier.

There should be no gate keeping here. Whether I experience one fight of the tier or the entire tier, I can still identify issues with the class I play. I addressed them, and laid out ways to possibly fix the issues to bring them more in line with other pure dps classes.

This is no gatekeeping, let me define what I mean:
First let's adress the elephant in the room
"I might find myself in 3rd or 4th on the totem pole, most of the fight I am well within the other 3 DPS we are bringing to the savage tier."
The context of this sentence completely change if you mean all floor or a single one.

Secondly, the problem is that the first floor is very lenient with DPS check, you can have many death of player executing their rotation with big mistakes, you would still pass the content.
The question is "Who are you comparing your performance with?". An example would be a lightweight champion claiming he can beat heavyweight beginner, do you understand the problem?
If I were to go in extreme content with 7 beginners, I would outdps them but it wouldn't mean MCH is fine.

That's why I pointed out P5S, it has a very lenient DPS check and doesn't need everyone to perform at their best.
The farther you go, the more DPS is required and expect everyone to perform at a higher level.

This way, you would understand that your teammates have a lot to do to reach the skill ceiling while a MCH has very little room to improve.
If you smashed your head against P8SP1 as a MCH, then swapped to DNC and the DPS check is suddenly easier, you would understand the problem.

[Doc_Seraph]

Kupo <3 they are going to rework mch in to a chemist (FFT) lol jk kupo <3

[ChaozK]

TBH, I think trying to balance a pure DPS class while being a pranged is a fool's endeavor since those two things are kinda antithetical because of the Ranged Tax (Which needs to go if fight design stays like this).

They could bring back Gauss Barrel which would fix the whole issue. In heavensward people werent ready for it and it was a bad take to force it upon BRD too but now in EW i feel like it would be fine as a feature exclusively for MCH.

[AmiBeau]

The farther you go, the more DPS is required and expect everyone to perform at a higher level.

This way, you would understand that your teammates have a lot to do to reach the skill ceiling while a MCH has very little room to improve.
If you smashed your head against P8SP1 as a MCH, then swapped to DNC and the DPS check is suddenly easier, you would understand the problem.

Why would you assume I don't know how raiding works? I fully know that each floor gets progressively more difficult. If people are half-heartedly making attempts in your groups/pulls, then that is your experience. My group generally tries to fulfill their roles to the best of their abilities, but are fully aware and communicate with each other on certain aspects of jobs (i.e. Positionals vs having to use True North charges.)

You're also assuming I've never played DNC. I'm more than aware that first week clear groups bring the meta in order to min/max, and the DNC raid wide and partner buffs are a great addition to any comp.

[Pyro2hell3]

while a more "complex" class having more dps may sound good here's what will actually happen

devs give a class the highest dps because it's the most complex tons of players pick it because its the best/meta but most won't actually play it right resulting in tons of subpar dps or tank/healers running around. granted there's already alot running around but it will be way way worse.

[BlaqWolv]

Just my take on utility based improvements on if a gm or dev happens to see this.

and sorry for the wall of text in advance.

The Mch Job is fun for me as it is. i admit that i don't know the DPS math or whatever because i really just enjoy the job. guns in fantasy games are sort of my thing lol i would love to go into a high-end raid and just shoot things but i have heard the job is struggling lately.

if going forward they do anything to it, i'd like to see more expansion of the bots in the next story. take the whole chess theme and and do more with it. either (1) give us a Knight/Rook bot companion to the queen that is similar to the turret in pvp where it puts out a small field that amplifies damage taken by enemies in range for a short period and give it a charge of 2 or 3 uses so you can just drop it on your current location so the tank/other dps can make the most of it while you continue to weave through attacks. or (2) give us a bot that we can alter somehow like our skills in pvp. either through a new skill itself or via the battery boosting skill used beforehand(air anchor or chainsaw) one version would activate the second bot and make it a knight version like mentioned previously with an aoe field that triggers a damage recieved increase to enemies in a field, and the second skill would activate a king version that absorbs damage before exploding in an aoe and can be combined with wildfire and does more damage based on the amount of hits it takes up to a certain amount.

These would apply both utility to the party and boost the damage output a bit for the mch itself.

I'm also of the camp that hypercharge and wildfire need to get reworked slightly to make them more accessible. give it a charge system similar to the paladins requiescat but leave it open to being able to weave gauss and ricochet between each shot. trigger wild fire and maybe it has a requirement of hits in a set time to trigger double damage and by triggering wildfire, you activate hypercharge which gives you 4 or 5 heat blast charges and you need at least 8 hits to inflict "Overcharged" on the target and then Wildfire will trigger double the damage. this is admittedly a more random idea than the previous bot expansion idea.

I admit, these are just my hopes and dreams for the future and are highly idealized based on my liking how the job aesthetic is set up now rather than any real "fixes" to the problems at hand. i started playing just before shadowbringer released and changed the job. like.... a week before. so i never really got to play the job before it was completely overhauled. i just thought i'd propose my ideas for more utility that would still enhance the "selfish dps" aspect without changing things too drastically now and changing the way my favorite job feels. i'm sure the other mch mains out there play mch because they prefer the boom boom of bullets and bots rather than epic battle ballads and hips that don't lie.

Again, sorry for the wall of text.

[VentVanitas]

They could bring back Gauss Barrel which would fix the whole issue. In heavensward people werent ready for it and it was a bad take to force it upon BRD too but now in EW i feel like it would be fine as a feature exclusively for MCH.

I'll accept either Gauss Barrel or Blast Charge, really. Being able to move while casting could be a feature unique to MCH to separate it from casters.