[Machinist] What is going on?

[MichiKyou]

Hey Devs,

I don't expect anyone to be reading this, really. Im not sure if they are aware there is an issue with Machinist.

But I'd like to address the issue of the utility and DPS that Machinist bring to the party.

Currently Machinist do not have any raidwide buffs for the party - but overall are performing lower than most bards and dancers. Machinist is a far more technically difficult job to play and even playing optimally we are not performing as well as we should.

If our class brings as much utility to the fight as a samurai, we should be doing on average around the same amount of damage. Not 1k dps lower.

Does anyone know what else they can do to machinist to fix it, potency buffs are a short term solution - we have issues with heat/battery. I'd love to see those addressed more.

[ShimAoki]

The Job site says "Physical ranged DPS attack foes from a distance. They excel at inflicting sustained damage, and also provide support for companions." So if this is what a Phys ranged is, then what is mch? Must be a limited job for deep dungeons lol.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The Job site says "Physical ranged DPS attack foes from a distance. They excel at inflicting sustained damage, and also provide support for companions." So if this is what a Phys ranged is, then what is mch? Must be a limited job for deep dungeons lol.

Not the most popular opinion, but I have been thinking for a while now that the "greedy dps" archetype does not work for a job in a role based around free mobility and providing party buffs (damage, mitigation, healing, diverse).

I currently see scenarios:

1.) Everything stays or buffs are insignificant, asking yourself "why should I bring Machinist FULLSTOP?"
2.) Machinist gets buffed damage to compete if not have a slight edge over BRD / DNC, "why bring DNC / BRD?"
3.) Machinist gets buffed damage to reach close to BLM / SAM - "why bring SAM / BLM if MCH does almost as much without any restrictions?"

Personal suggestion: Machinist needs to go back to the days of Stormblood / Heavensward in terms of being a Ranged DPS that will provide support abilities to keep them competitive with other Ranged DPS and keeping the damage in similar ranges.

Suggested abilities:

Palisade - 90s CD, provides -20% physical reduction taken to target (alternative -10% generic reduction) [Eq. to Minne + Curing Waltz]

"Hypercharge"* - 120s, buff / debuff enhancing damage dealt (on target) or a different stat [Eq. to Battle Voice + Tech. Step]
* = placeholder name, not necessarily the same ability

Dismantle - same Dismantle from Stormblood and prior, essentially a "Reprisal" of sorts unique to MCH in this case.

Feel free to disagree, but at least in my opinion it is the best to make MCH a utility dps again.

[Seraphor]

MCH does need potency buffs to start with. It's not a "short term" solution, it's a baseline step. MCH is supposed to be the 'selfish' phys ranged dps, yet is still far, far behind BRD and DNC.

At a minimum it needs a potency increase to it's main combo and Wildfire. It already has a half-decent burst.


It terms of group support, I'd say stick with the 'selfish' dps aspect as far as raid buffs go so it's still dealing all of it's own damage, but grant it non-dmg utility.
Something like a party shield or something, considering DNC has Curing Waltz and Improvised Finish, while BRD has single target buffs like Wardens Peaen and Natures Minne.
Another option could be an Expedience style speed buff, considering it has no mobility skill like the other two.

[xAFROx]

MCH does need potency buffs to start with. It's not a "short term" solution, it's a baseline step. MCH is supposed to be the 'selfish' phys ranged dps, yet is still far, far behind BRD and DNC.

At a minimum it needs a potency increase to it's main combo and Wildfire. It already has a half-decent burst.


It terms of group support, I'd say stick with the 'selfish' dps aspect as far as raid buffs go so it's still dealing all of it's own damage, but grant it non-dmg utility.
Something like a party shield or something, considering DNC has Curing Waltz and Improvised Finish, while BRD has single target buffs like Wardens Peaen and Natures Minne.
Another option could be an Expedience style speed buff, considering it has no mobility skill like the other two.

Doesn't Tactician reduce damage taken by a percent? I know it cancels out dancer's shield samba and bard's whatever it was called. But folks saying it needs to have something for the party, the most common thing I'm seeing already exists, doesn't it?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

MCH does need potency buffs to start with. It's not a "short term" solution, it's a baseline step. MCH is supposed to be the 'selfish' phys ranged dps, yet is still far, far behind BRD and DNC.

At a minimum it needs a potency increase to it's main combo and Wildfire. It already has a half-decent burst.


It terms of group support, I'd say stick with the 'selfish' dps aspect as far as raid buffs go so it's still dealing all of it's own damage, but grant it non-dmg utility.
Something like a party shield or something, considering DNC has Curing Waltz and Improvised Finish, while BRD has single target buffs like Wardens Peaen and Natures Minne.
Another option could be an Expedience style speed buff, considering it has no mobility skill like the other two.

The selfish-dps type was something MCH got shoehorned into with 5.0 after difficulty keeping the rivalry between BRD and MCH damage buffs roughly the same, when the solution of a third party (Dancer) being introduced was already on its way.

Selfish-DPS MCH can go away for all I care, I don't miss it.

[jrollins89]

Doesn't Tactician reduce damage taken by a percent? I know it cancels out dancer's shield samba and bard's whatever it was called. But folks saying it needs to have something for the party, the most common thing I'm seeing already exists, doesn't it?

Tactician is, for all intents and purposes, a "Role Action". It has the exact same effect as Shield Samba and Troubadour and you can only be affected by one at a time, the only difference being name and which level they're obtained at. So claiming that MCH brings party utility/isn't a selfish DPS because of Tactician would be the same as saying that BLM isn't a selfish DPS because it has Addle. Or Samurai because it has Feint. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, now does it?

[xAFROx]

Tactician is, for all intents and purposes, a "Role Action". It has the exact same effect as Shield Samba and Troubadour and you can only be affected by one at a time, the only difference being name and which level they're obtained at. So claiming that MCH brings party utility/isn't a selfish DPS because of Tactician would be the same as saying that BLM isn't a selfish DPS because it has Addle. Or Samurai because it has Feint. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, now does it?

Fair. I only comment that because I've seen about 3 threads now where folks mentioned mch should have a raidwide damage reduction, that's all.

[ChaozK]

3.) Machinist gets buffed damage to reach close to BLM / SAM - "why bring SAM / BLM if MCH does almost as much without any restrictions?"

MCH doesnt really need to out-contribute SAM or even BLM, it does however need to out-contribute at least the ranged dps that bring utility as it itself has none.
Or alternatively give it defensive utility on par with BRD and DNC.

[Tsumdere]

Feel free to disagree, but at least in my opinion it is the best to make MCH a utility dps again.

I do disagree.

I hate this idea that every single job in a role needs to be the same thing. People bitch and moan about other jobs being homogenized but it's always "just make MCH utility job... and homogenize it". This is what people jump to instead of say... giving MCH the PvP Blast Shot as their basic combo.

All buffing MCH higher would do would be legitimize double phys ranged comps and give MCH players reasons to play it outside of aesthetic. DNC and BRD will still be hard lock-ins for speeds/parsing/comfort. Melee will still play melee and prefer to play melee. BLMs will still play BLM and prefer to play BLM.

And it is ALWAYS non-MCH players trying to give their idea on what should happen instead of actual MCH players. I would despise being made yet another support bitch in service of melee and their job fantasy.

No homogenization. Give MCH big DPS.