How to easily have healers dps engaged ( yet another thread)

[Azuri]

This is a really fascinating thing that dawned on me. He simply can't get it. To him it's really not mostly pressing a single button because 30% of the time he presses none at all.

If you take an average healer run with 80% of all casts being Glare (yes, Renathras, this includes GCDs and oGCDs) and remove 30% of GCD uptime while adding some "safety Cure III spam" (the rest of us can read "pointless overhealing") you really do end with maybe less than half of your casts being Glare. And yeah, I can see how one might find it actually fine. Just because they don't know better.

There really is no point trying to explain that healer design is awful and no, "you can have three healers that work well and leave one in the trash for me" will never be an acceptable compromise. He just fundamentally lacks the understanding to get it.

[Renathras]

This is a really fascinating thing that dawned on me. He simply can't get it. To him it's really not mostly pressing a single button because 30% of the time he presses none at all.

If you take an average healer run with 80% of all casts being Glare (yes, Renathras, this includes GCDs and oGCDs) and remove 30% of GCD uptime while adding some "safety Cure III spam" (the rest of us can read "pointless overhealing") you really do end with maybe less than half of your casts being Glare. And yeah, I can see how one might find it actually fine. Just because they don't know better.

There really is no point trying to explain that healer design is awful and no, "you can have three healers that work well and leave one in the trash for me" will never be an acceptable compromise. He just fundamentally lacks the understanding to get it.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/ad-hominem-fallacy/

"There’s nothing worse than when you’re debating someone who has no idea what they’re talking about, is obviously a fool, and to make it worse, smells like dirty socks.

Ugh. It’s just the worst. And they need to know just how uninformed they are (and that they smell like dirty socks).

Actually, they don’t. When your argument strays from the issue at hand to criticisms of the person you’re arguing with, you’re no longer communicating logically. Instead, you’re making an ad hominem attack."

[Acece]

I think most whms that wanted complexity gave up because we had to deal with sylphies that wanted to keep whm without it's knee caps lol.

[Videra]

Right, so, to steer the long-form debate into a wall, let's address the facts we know:

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1) WHM is doomed to hold the baby rattle because the developers want it to be the simple healer anyone can pick up, while simultaneously reflecting this decision onto the entire healer role rendering it null and void.
2) Healers in general have been reduced to a large portion of their gameplay being nuke spam, upwards of 90% of your uptime in some extreme cases, but always the majority of your casts in others. They currently have a dot that takes up another chunk of your casts, and will likely be removed in 7.0.
3) The game has a whole two class designers, and in a Live Letter prior to Endwalker the creative director said in no uncertain terms that they're not making healers more complex.

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What do we expect of healing in 7.0? Does anyone have hope that the dev team will go against the direct statement of 'No' to additional complexity made before Endwalker? What are your plans for if they hold true to that? Will you completely quit the role if you lose Dia and its derivatives and get reduced to truly one-button spam? And moreover, what do you specifically want?

[Mithron]

And moreover, what do you specifically want?

I'm definitely not a healer main, but if healing is not going to be made more complex, then I want more complex DPS rotations on healer more similar to HW style. And PERSONALLY, I loved Cleric Stance stance dancing, but seeing as I'm not a healer main, I will not force healer mains who know the consequences of it more to suffer it for my casual pick up and play sometimes wishes.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t want WHM to hold the baby rattle because though my individual care for the WHM class is about as high as CRP square has shown they can’t be trusted to make an “easy job” within a role because when that job inevitably ends up kinda garbage “cough” toilet paper lilys “cough” they will just nerf the entire role to correct the problem, WHM is even more egregious because no matter your opinion of it in high end content it is 100% the slyphie healer of popular with non raiders, if the one popular healer is bad because it’s too simple the entire role is gonna get nuked from orbit, which is exactly what happened in ShB

[T-Owl]

I don’t want WHM to hold the baby rattle because though my individual care for the WHM class is about as high as CRP square has shown they can’t be trusted to make an “easy job” within a role because when that job inevitably ends up kinda garbage “cough” toilet palate lilys “cough” they will just nerf the entire role to correct the problem, WHM is even more egregious because no matter your opinion of it in high end content it is 100% the slyphie healer of popular with non raiders, if the one popular healer is bad because it’s too simple the entire role is gonna get nuked from orbit, which is exactly what happened in ShB

The problem is that Sylphie healers wouldn't even be affected by the change because even right now, they don't utilize the tools they have effectively and instead throw around fluff casts all the time for the sake of roleplaying as the cute bunnyboys tanks healer waifu and the true heart of the group, while everyone else behind the pc is annoyed and resents this guy silently for slowing the entire run. Sylphie healers will only ever get effected if SE ever states that yeah, healers should dps when there is nothing to heal and you can report these people for griefing for afking or deliberately overhealing. Which naturally wille ver happen. So SE isn't even pandering towards these people prefered playstyle, but their self-perception really. Its especially annoying because it basically holds the most iconic healer job in the game hostage. I mean, if Healers would ever be more involved in terms of dpsing or healing and on an equal footing with each other, I certainly would chose the white mage for aesthetic reasons.

[Dogempire]

I don’t want WHM to hold the baby rattle because though my individual care for the WHM class is about as high as CRP square has shown they can’t be trusted to make an “easy job” within a role because when that job inevitably ends up kinda garbage “cough” toilet paper lilys “cough” they will just nerf the entire role to correct the problem, WHM is even more egregious because no matter your opinion of it in high end content it is 100% the slyphie healer of popular with non raiders, if the one popular healer is bad because it’s too simple the entire role is gonna get nuked from orbit, which is exactly what happened in ShB

Square just can't be trusted to design healers.

It's pretty obvious by now that they don't care about the issues the role is facing because they only ever care about balance issues facing tanks or melee dps. If there's ever gonna be any meaningful change at this point it's going to take a LOT more backlash than when ShB dropped and pretty much every healer main complained about how braindead everything is now.

[T-Owl]

Square just can't be trusted to design healers.

It's pretty obvious by now that they don't care about the issues the role is facing because they only ever care about balance issues facing tanks or melee dps. If there's ever gonna be any meaningful change at this point it's going to take a LOT more backlash than when ShB dropped and pretty much every healer main complained about how braindead everything is now.

I'm not sure if its just dismissal of the role itself that lead them to the design choices they are currently dedicating themselves to or if it is buckling down to Sylphies, who are a pretty loud and aggressive voice in the community. Like, I just saw a video where a guy was basically just giving healer the top to avoid overhealing and he got immediately attacked by Sylphies in the comment section for what is helpful advice for players who'd like to optimize. These players are hyper sensitive when it comes to just suggesting that in actuality, being able to contribute dps is the sign of a superior healer and so I feel like the devs just resigned themselves to just design enrage timers with healer dps in mind because they know it is the reality of every player who engages on this level on contact while keeping up the talk that it is totally not requried and accomodating these people. And we've seen over and over again that the devs often try to muddy the waters in terms of skill gaps at display by simplifying roles and professions. They did the same with Tanks, when playing in dps stance became more common place.

[Liam_Harper]

Square just can't be trusted to design healers.

It's pretty obvious by now that they don't care about the issues the role is facing because they only ever care about balance issues facing tanks or melee dps. If there's ever gonna be any meaningful change at this point it's going to take a LOT more backlash than when ShB dropped and pretty much every healer main complained about how braindead everything is now.

I don't think they can be trusted to design jobs in general.

Melee are lucky regarding balance because SE has a strange idea that positionals and melee uptime are the height of skill and worth an additional 10% dps, but tanks and dps in general are poorly designed in my opinion and sliding downhill rapidly towards the bottom of the pit to join healers. Tanks have always been watered down melee dps with a few cooldowns and dps boil down to variations of 1-2-3 and oGCD's to fill the gaps for the sake of something to press. The latest dps additions of "aoe version of your single target oGCD" and "button that you can press when you use a 2m cooldown" are uninspired and lazy and things like Lego SMN and Kaiten removal are a bad sign.

SE have always had a tiny job design team and the game has been expanding expansion after expansion. It's caused them to fall behind. Healers have generally been the corner they cut and pushed to the side to reduce workload, but now even dps and tanks are stretching them thin. They pushed AST and DRG to 7.0 because the playerbase expects good quality and they simply can't keep up with that anymore. They have issues that they've ignored for years.