How to easily have healers dps engaged ( yet another thread)

[Renathras]

And that would be worse how exactly?
We currently get 3 free stacks and then avoid the skill like the plague in a 10min fight. I never claimed it would fix all issues but if "too op" really is your only concern, I provided a very simple and very effective fix - limit it by MP cost that are too high to make it spammable. That's all. It would certainly be better than what we currently have and even offer a little bit of a skill ceiling. Having something to optimize isn't a bad thing.

Fair enough.

There probably are some solutions to be had. I guess the important thing is just to bring up options and see if anything sticks out as a good solution to employ.

A really easy way to fix the issue with Toxikon while making SGE more fun to play would be firstly to either buff Toxikon to double Dosis potency or have it combo into another Dosis potency OGCD attack used right after Toxikon.

From there, simply reworking how Addersgall/Addersting are obtained slightly. Instead of generating normally over time, SGE gets a new DPS button that generates 1 Addersgall and 1 Addersting, has a 20 second cooldown on the GCD, and has 2 charges. Then whenever you activate Kardia healing, your gauge increases by 2. When your guage is 50 or higher, your next E. Diag or E. Prog grants 1 Addersting. The Addersting generation on E. Diag breaking is removed.

One argument I've seen is changing Rhizo to generate Addersting (and either making it a 60 sec CD or giving it 2 charges). And, honestly, it's one of SGE's most lackluster abilities, so having some extra function there might be just what the doctor ordered.

EDIT:

I love how you just make the statement oh yes things have changed, what things, oh you know things,

I can go into more depth, if you like? Off the top of my head:

- 1.5 spamcast to allow more weaving
- Differentiation into Pure and Barrier Healers (for whatever that's worth in practice)
- The removal of a spec (nAST) and addition of a new Healer Job (SGE)
- The new capstone abilities, particularly Expedient
- SCH pet changes, both in terms of potency and responsiveness
- Ability/Button changes (like Consolation being merged with Seraph)
- Tuning changes (like Misery being DPS neutral, which wasn't true in 5.X nor in 6.0)
- Party changes that affect Healers (like tank active mitigation abilities)
- All of the new abilities added overall as well as charge gains on existing abilities (Benison, Aquaveil, etc)
- Encounter design changes and how they work with these abilities (for example, more short pulses of multi-hit damage; the addition of strong bleed debuffs)

That's just a few things off the top of my head that might make zero difference to you, but we're not talking about just you, we're talking about every healer in the game collectively. Indeed, note how SCH is at the bottom of the list in satisfaction in the 5.0 poll, but is 7th most played and most played healer in the 6.2 JP data. While the latter is of "main" so we don't know if they're all satisfied, it's probably reasonable to assume people picking it more means they don't HATE it, and it is more played by the JP base than the others. The data you provided seems to indicate there's been a change over time.

The healer role is not, it seems, "exactly the same as it was in 5.x" unless you squint so hard that a WHM looks like a SAM. You do the same thing you accuse me of, btw, insisting there were no changes, pointing out some things that changed, but insisting they didn't really do anything.

And no you can’t just go “yeah but you were annoyed because your main got lobotomised,

I'm curious what argument you think I'm making?

I'm not saying you can't be annoyed or that feelings of annoyance aren't valid.

I'm saying that those feelings do not persist to players who started or picked up a Job after the change and don't have that emotional attachment to its previous form. There are many cases of irl things where people who are with it when there is a change hate it, but new people who are introduced to it after the change love it.

job satisfaction crashing after a major change is the cleanest way of showing a change was unpopular,

WITH THE PEOPLE who didn't like the change or liked the prior state. You know as well as I that many of those players stopped healing while we also have literally millions of new players, including hundreds of thousands, if not over a million, new healers. You think all of them identically share that opinion? What is your basis for that belief?

and the fact that it didn’t recover from 5.0-5.25 shows it was a sustained bad decision

This, on the other hand, is a decent argument. The problem with it is, it's also 3 years old. DO we know that it didn't recover after 5.25? No. DO we know it was a sustained position? No. So we don't know it was a sustained bad decision because we don't have the data to support that.

And no adding those points up says absolutely nothing because you are counting people multiple times,

O...kay. Let me ask you this question:

When you shared that data, what did you think it showed? That is, what were you trying to prove with it?

And I said “kinda okay” with the caveat that raids don’t work without healer mains

(...this exact same argument can be made for literally all mains...)

there is little to no data for endwalker I’ve found the most up to date data there is,

This does seem to be the case from me searching to see if there's new data as well. Kind of unfortunate since I'd like to see if those trends have held up or not. I suspect they have not, but data is needed to know one way or the other.

it’s obvious that you don’t really care what I have to say

That can't be obvious - because it isn't true.

I actually do care what you have to say. I disagree with a lot of it, but that doesn't mean that I don't agree with any of it, nor does it mean I don't care.

On the subject of expedient if you actually believe that people were clowning on the skill and not how square chose to display it then that’s a reading comprehension issue

If you were on this forum OR Reddit OR most any FFXIV Disc OR in the comments of any FFXIV content creator's YouTube videos - you know that people were clowning on the skill.

There were people, to their credit (not to toot, but I was one of them), pointing out that it might be a sleeper skill that would turn out to be really good. My own position was that SCH was the most powerful (clunky as all hells, but powerful) healer in ShB and likely would be in EW, despite all the shiny new toy SGE hype and people talking down SCH.

...but there were a LOT of people clowning on not only Expedient but SCH, insisting the Job was a total mess, and moreover, that no one would be playing it in 6.X with SGE there to move to instead.

Those people absolutely existed, and it wasn't a "reading comprehension issue", and I suspect even you know that.

I can use other examples of the community feeling one way but those views changing, if you don't like that one, but I suspect you realize the truth of my argument there and just don't like it...

THAT SAID:

I don't mind good discussions. If you have more data, we can talk about it, and I actually do enjoy those conversations and comparisons. As I've said a couple times now, my issue is the hyperbole and overstatement of claims. It prevents any serious discussions or solutions because the absurdity of the positions. And there's legitimately no reason for it.

You don't need to claim that 90% of people hate healing and the role is on its deathbed...to note that there are problems with the role and Jobs in it and they need changing. It could be that only 10% of people dislike the role and it's middle of the pack in terms of popularity, and that could already justify working on changes. There's no reason to overstate the case at all.

Woah, look at the badass over there. A badass who averages 60-70% GCD uptime. Sorry, lad, but someone who does nothing for a third of the fight doesn't get to talk about "understanding of the topic".

You are getting carried by your groups. End of story.

This, I will dignify with no further response other than pointing out it's a TOS violation. Good job, "lad". (I bet you think pressing oGCDs is "nothing" too, as if the buttons magically push themselves...)