The 7th Circle illegitimate waymarks post is a bit laughable

[Ayche]

Crime and Punishment

[grinkdaboy]

the only reason they made a statement about it is because JP players are screeching at eachother and refuse to play with other people who use those waymarks

[Havenchild]

SE makes a shit system and the player who finds a way to circumvent it gets punished. Like clockwork.

Circumvented with the use of third party tools. Doing so is always punishable and the playerbase still seems oblivious to this or is willing to take the risk doing said activities. Bit conflicted on the playerban and then allowing exactly what the player did however. Granted, don't think anyone knows what the punishment exactly was? If it was a multi-day ban that seems a bit excessive given the solution, but if it was a 1 Day ban well, that's kinda fair.

I agree with OP though, if the arena is going to change design, then the accomodating spaces should have been targetable before the fight began (when these fights were frst implemented) like they did with E3S. They could also just allow players to place waymarks specifically in dead space but I'm assuming that ground targetting, furniture placement and waymarks are all working off a similar system.

[Hasrat]

One could argue, and the dev stance probably is, that players could have communicated the problem here (inability to place waymarks as needed) and the implemented change would've come out regardless, without the need to utilize third party tools to circumvent current restrictions.

Players have a valid stance, that this is an issue for the fight. But is also something devs probably would've accommodated without any fuss if players were patient.

In the end, they gotta hand down some punishment, or else they're not even enforcing their own ToS. Shitty, maybe, but I'd rather that than the implication that players can get away with "cheating" (when found out).

[drtasteyummy]

These people can track down who set the very first illegal markers in a raid that has been copied a million times, they can't track gold buyers and wintraders but that was possible with ease.

SE always holding ur back by giving u big laughs

[localareanetwork]

I'm not sure this is the same case as someone using a UI add-on, (like increasing size of numbers) because this one just places markers improperly straight up. In this particular case the markers are used to make a mechanic completely braindead, so if you couldn't place them, it'd make the movement a little bit more risky. At this point everyone is trained so the markers are not needed but it's just my two cents. It's like me loading into a fight and placing a way marker out of bounds because the arena changes mid fight when I hadn't beaten the fight yet.

[Packetdancer]

It was the tool used in 5.1 with TEA in changing the markers mid fight to accommodate for the final phase with exatrines.

See, I think that one crosses the line; shifting waymarks around mid-fight is something you definitely cannot do without the aid of additional tools, and it allows so much potential cheating in terms of having something literally just mark "go here". There's eight waymarks, you could have a tool that solved for every single player individually and they just had to follow their waymarks. Changing things so that markers cannot be shifted mid-combat seems reasonable as a way to prevent that.

But placing markers outside of the arena can be done by just editing a file -- not a part of the game data, a per-character data file saved into your Documents directory -- to change your marker presets; you don't need modifications to the game code, or third-party modifications. It's functionally not that different than editing a .ini or .cfg file. So I admit I think this one's kind of an overreaction, even if I strongly suspect the original waymarks in this case were probably created via an add-on/mod.

[Iyrnthota]

This is basically what they said they'd do the last time they came out with a post about 3rd party tools.
"If you're using useful 3rd party tools, we'll ban you for using them, then implement that same functionality that we banned you for"

At least they're consistent I suppose.

[grinkdaboy]

One could argue, and the dev stance probably is, that players could have communicated the problem here (inability to place waymarks as needed) and the implemented change would've come out regardless, without the need to utilize third party tools to circumvent current restrictions.

Players have a valid stance, that this is an issue for the fight. But is also something devs probably would've accommodated without any fuss if players were patient.

In the end, they gotta hand down some punishment, or else they're not even enforcing their own ToS. Shitty, maybe, but I'd rather that than the implication that players can get away with "cheating" (when found out).

that's bullshit and you know it

they dont care about any feedback outside of JP feedback. do you think it's coincidence that whenever they held those contests for gear, hairstyles, weapons, etc that the vast vast majority of them were by japanese artists?

[Kazhar]

One could argue, and the dev stance probably is, that players could have communicated the problem here (inability to place waymarks as needed) and the implemented change would've come out regardless, without the need to utilize third party tools to circumvent current restrictions.

And wait until 6.4, when the tier is no longer relevant, for them to implement those changes? They're extremely slow at implementing any kind of QoL.