Thread: Patch 6.21 Job Adjustments Overview:

Originally Posted by Rithy255

I think this ruins the point of clemency being a rare situational use ability that can save runs, that is unique and useable for more casual content when you ain't got a healer ect.
Also Why would you use clemency if you can just use holy shelltron or intervention get a stronger healing effect & mitigation. If both shared the same gauge.

It's a rare case of a Job having a second option outside a damage GCD, Sure you don't wanna have to use clemency but having it's always going to be nice, So I don't really agree with changing clemency.

Clemency is generally the one ability I'll defend that is considerd too "situational" on paladin.

It's too rare and even when you can use it, it never really "feels" good given how much it destroys your DPS. It needs to be better healing than Intervention, so Intervention's main purpose is damage reduction, while you use Clemancy for the healing instead. Throwing both on a DPS who just ate a vuln stack, or someone got raised, or someone taking a tank buster (or your self) would feel really good and thematically fit PLD well. I'm not a fan of skills that are only useful in hyper specific situations, but perhaps Criterion dungeons will give me a new perspective. Deep Dungeon did not.

It's also important to note that if PLDs were decent enough at providing heals, it would allow healers to DPS more thus giving PLD even more thematic utility.

Originally Posted by Mithron

It's too rare and even when you can use it, it never really "feels" good given how much it destroys your DPS. It needs to be better healing than Intervention, so Intervention's main purpose is damage reduction, while you use Clemancy for the healing instead. Throwing both on a DPS who just ate a vuln stack, or someone got raised, or someone taking a tank buster (or your self) would feel really good and thematically fit PLD well. I'm not a fan of skills that are only useful in hyper specific situations, but perhaps Criterion dungeons will give me a new perspective. Deep Dungeon did not.

It's also important to note that if PLDs were decent enough at providing heals, it would allow healers to DPS more thus giving PLD even more thematic utility.

No Interventions main purpose is a Small damage reduction and a HOT, use it on a drk who helps reduce even more damage from TBN, and the small amount of damage they did take can be sustained by your Paladin without wasting a Healer resources, It's hot being 250 for 4 ticks is = 1000, Clemency being a Heal that is shared with it's oath gauge makes no sense.

If you're not a fan of "Hyper specific" then I don't see any comments on cover, nor something like Shield bash, the fact is Clemency has a more clear use even more so then those two, It's a GCD healing ability that opens up a lot to the PLD while you don't want to use but should be used in a lot of situations, Including when healers are struggling, when your healer is on the floor in a dungeon (Comes up for me more then you know), Solo content, Likely new content Dugeon content, fates, ect. Clemency actually has a lot of use cases in down time and progression so No clemency isn't niche enough nor should it be removed, clemency should feel bad when your trying to optimise your Damage rotation like using a GCD heal as a healer should, doesn't mean it should be removed.

If you wanna recommend adding something like a targeted OGCD Heal on Paladin I'm all for that, but we need Understand putting it with intervention and holy shelltron makes it practically useless as they already act as a heal with mitigation.

Originally Posted by Rithy255

No Interventions main purpose is a Small damage reduction and a HOT, use it on a drk who helps reduce even more damage from TBN, and the small amount of damage they did take can be sustained by your Paladin without wasting a Healer resources, It's hot being 250 for 4 ticks is = 1000, Clemency being a Heal that is shared with it's oath gauge makes no sense.

If you're not a fan of "Hyper specific" then I don't see any comments on cover, nor something like Shield bash, the fact is Clemency has a more clear use even more so then those two, It's a GCD healing ability that opens up a lot to the PLD while you don't want to use but should be used in a lot of situations, Including when healers are struggling, when your healer is on the floor in a dungeon (Comes up for me more then you know), Solo content, Likely new content Dugeon content, fates, ect. Clemency actually has a lot of use cases in down time and progression so No clemency isn't niche enough nor should it be removed, clemency should feel bad when your trying to optimise your Damage rotation like using a GCD heal as a healer should, doesn't mean it should be removed.

If you wanna recommend adding something like a targeted OGCD Heal on Paladin I'm all for that, but we need Understand putting it with intervention and holy shelltron makes it practically useless as they already act as a heal with mitigation.

Then buff Clemancy to 1500 potency or remove Intervention/Holy Shelltron's regen. Whatever you gotta do to make Clemancy be the go-to Oath gauge heal while Intervention/Holy Shelltron be the damage reduction. I'd rather keep both the regen and have a bigger heal, just adding to PLD's utility. Constantly looking at my party members' health bars for opportunities to heal them sounds like a whole lot of fun that would definitely make PLD useful and unique, far more so than what Intervention currently does. Even consider lowering one or both to 25 cost instead of 50.

I agree Shield Bash and Cover need looking at too, but Clemancy is a much quicker and easier fix. We already have Vercure for what Clemancy does, just go play RDM for that instead since it's actually more usable and less sacrifice in the same situations you would use Clemancy. I want Clemancy to be Oath Gauge OGCD and using it regularly to heal my party and it be good and useful. Make that happen, whatever it takes.

Originally Posted by Mithron

Then buff Clemancy to 1500 potency or remove Intervention/Holy Shelltron's regen. Whatever you gotta do to make Clemancy be the go-to Oath gauge heal while Intervention/Holy Shelltron be the damage reduction. I'd rather keep both the regen and have a bigger heal, just adding to PLD's utility. Constantly looking at my party members' health bars for opportunities to heal them sounds like a whole lot of fun that would definitely make PLD useful and unique, far more so than what Intervention currently does. Even consider lowering one or both to 25 cost instead of 50.

I agree Shield Bash and Cover need looking at too, but Clemancy is a much quicker and easier fix. We already have Vercure for what Clemancy does, just go play RDM for that instead since it's actually more usable and less sacrifice in the same situations you would use Clemancy. I want Clemancy to be Oath Gauge OGCD and using it regularly to heal my party and it be good and useful. Make that happen, whatever it takes.

We don't need Clemency on oath gauge nor do we need to nerf Holy shelltron it's already a bad ability compared to over tank cds, Maybe you need to use intervention more, epically because i use it a lot to help when im capped on 100 oath, I don't get why your trying to remove current clemency to replace it with something thats a tied to oath Gauge. Even If you wanted PLD to have a OGCD heal tied to oath for some reason removing something like clemency instead of Shield Bash? PLD is arguably in need of changes to some of it's kit, but we don't have to remove a ability like clemency, I don't think nerfing intervention to put PLDS heal on oath gauge will make it more unique.

I don't disagree a OCD heal isn't a bad thing that could be added onto PLD, but not at the cost of something like clemency, it also shouldn't be tied to your oath, If Gunbreaker can have a regen, warrior can have a massive self heal and dark knight can have Oblation, I don't see why Paladin can't have something like a targetable OGCD heal (On 60 Secs with 2 stacks) But also keep it's ability clemency, as it is It doesn't need changing, Neither does it need to be slapped on Oath Gauge, That's not adding to it's "utility" (which plds utility isn't even that good and it suffers from bad defensives compared to other tanks) It's just taking away a ability likely taking away the regen aspect of intervention and replacing it with a heal that takes up the same resource... Yeah I don't think that's a good idea sorry, I understand wanting utility on Paladin but do we really have to remove clemency for it?

Yeah I'll just go play red mage for vercure?
I enjoy Paladin, Just because I elike how clemency works that has it's moments where it shines, Paladins always been a good "solo" tank, a good "run saver" tank so removing clemency just makes the class a lot less fun having less options, even if I don't use it a lot.