Thread: Patch 6.21 Job Adjustments Overview:

Originally Posted by Rithy255

I actually like the Idea of Paladin doing the "least dps" but having the most strong utility and defensives, Currently this isn't the case by far Paladins current utility of having 2 party wides (one being a bit more situational because of positioning, the other not benefiting the pld) They also have one less Personal in exchange for this, I don't think right now Paladins defensives or utility are in a great spot, also a big amount of your self sustain is uncontrollable.

I think some problems are that you can't make Paladin do too little damage if people want enrages to be harsh, but you also can't make paladins utility Required for a fight. I would like to see more diversity in tanks but at the same time realistically looking at the current game balance it makes it hard to choose a tank for extra utility and defensives over one that just does more dps, you'd have to make PLD's utility pretty much required or so powerful it could contend with damage somehow.

Personally I think a good middle ground is giving PLD slightly more defensive utility and a bit of a buff in that department in exchange of a smaller amount of Damage compared to GNB, I don't think going on either side of the extreme, we can't make PLD do "too little" otherwise no ones going to use it even if the utility was pretty good, but I don't think PLD needs to be exactly on par with gunbreaker (currently it does because its general kit isn't even that good). All tanks right now with how enrages, how damage is heavily favoured, all tanks should be in 1% of each other.

Uneducated question here: didn't they update pld back in shb to be able to block magic attacks? With how frequent sheltron is, wouldn't that mean they have a fairly solid point of mitigation despite having less personal mitigation buttons than the other tanks?

Originally Posted by xAFROx

Uneducated question here: didn't they update pld back in shb to be able to block magic attacks? With how frequent sheltron is, wouldn't that mean they have a fairly solid point of mitigation despite having less personal mitigation buttons than the other tanks?

Here's the main issue Shelltron aka Holy Shelltron is pretty weird and doesn't work well with stuff such as the new raids DOT effects, I'm pretty sure (I've only heard stuff) but Paladin takes more damage compared to somethinig like a gunbreaker in general, Paladin sure has plently of self sustain but can't control a big chunk of it unlike warrior or gunbreakers sustain.
Also Shelltron I believe takes around 23 seconds so basically the same amount to fill up as any other tanking cd It wont fill up on down time, storing two is nice but it isn't a massive benefit.

Comparing Paladin to warrior, PLD doesn't benefit from their own Raid wide, PLD lacks a personal like thrill, PLD lacks anything like equilibrium (no clemency doesn't count xD). So I believe Paladin In general just has worse self defence capabilities then any other tank (Gunbreaker/Dark Don't really lack in those either), mind you it isn't by a massive amount, MT Paladin is somewhat decent (Prolly better to have another tank) because during your req window your gonna heal from autos, but i do think in general the req healing needs to be removed or toned down so we can put it on something Paladin can control.

Ohhhh.... ok, that makes more sense then. I only ever kept pld leveled so I could throw away old tanking gear, so I haven't gotten around to it this xpac yet to notice those things.

Wow, I'm so glad gnb and drk are my main tanking jobs, then.

All tanks are so homogenized that it doesn't even matter who does more or less at this point. If you wanna talk utility, they all have:
a raidwide mit (except PLD w/ 2)
a 25s spammable def cd (TBN/HoC/Bloodwhetting/HSheltron)
a def cd that can be placed on a party member (TBN/HoC/Intervention/Nascent)

What should matter is that they all should be ~1% damage variance among each other.

Because I want to use Clemancy to heal, not Intervention. Intervention's heal isn't that great, 1k total potency over what, 12 seconds? A 1k instant heal is generally better in most Extreme/Savage+ circumstances, and if you could do it instantly for free then that's a lot more value. Sure the Intervention has the same total heal and comes with damage reduction, but I want to press Clemancy. I do use Intervention as much as I can and honestly was looking forward to using my Oath gauge to heal others the most in EW. Now I want to do it better in current relevant content.

The problem is that Clemancy is currently not fun nor an option, so by making it an OGCD that fixes both.

Originally Posted by Mithron

Because I want to use Clemancy to heal, not Intervention. Intervention's heal isn't that great, 1k total potency over what, 12 seconds? A 1k instant heal is generally better in most Extreme/Savage+ circumstances, and if you could do it instantly for free then that's a lot more value. Sure the Intervention has the same total heal and comes with damage reduction, but I want to press Clemancy. I do use Intervention as much as I can and honestly was looking forward to using my Oath gauge to heal others the most in EW. Now I want to do it better in current relevant content.

The problem is that Clemancy is currently not fun nor an option, so by making it an OGCD that fixes both.

Intervention is a heal and you can use it as one? Sure it's also a mitigation tool, but 9/10 times im gonna use Intervention for both especially with the a lot damage over time, Your point loses me 1K is pretty big considering that's how much clemency heals you for, sure its over time? but a lot of the effects gives you dots in the current raid tier?
We don't need Oath to have clemency, I want Paladin to have strong utility like I said I believe Paladin should get a strong OCD, targetable heal similar to how warrior gets a self heal, DRK gets oblation and gunbreaker gets a regen, We could give Paladin a strong OGCD heal

Clemency is fine it's a option, might not be ideal for savage, but it being there to help even prolong a fight and see more mechs even in savage is a good use in progression. This is ignoring the countless non savage uses it has, let Paladin keep it instead of removing it Theirs other abilities you can remove before removing clemency.

Heres Three things you can remove before clemency, if Paladin has too much "bloat" if we add more stuff.
1. Shield Bash, It's rarely ever used way more niche then clemency
2. Intervention/Holy shelltron can be merged, right now both serve the same purpose, keep the intervention animation when targeting someone else, change it so instead of blocks are 20% Mitgation or something lol.
3. Cover, I rather this just be buffed but I still rather cover be removed before clemency.

All 3 can make more room for extra Paladin utility/defensives before we have to get rid of one of Paladins more unique Abilities that is actually good in a lot of situations.

I'm not looking to remove PLD bloat, or to address Shield Bash or Cover. I just want Clemancy to be an OGCD so I can actually press it. That's it. Make it like Equilibrium so it's a big heal that we can throw on someone that also gives regen. Whatever it takes. Make it an OGCD and make it good. Don't care about anything else said.

Originally Posted by Mithron

I'm not looking to remove PLD bloat, or to address Shield Bash or Cover. I just want Clemancy to be an OGCD so I can actually press it. That's it. Make it like Equilibrium so it's a big heal that we can throw on someone that also gives regen. Whatever it takes. Make it an OGCD and make it good. Don't care about anything else said.

Ok so lets make clemency a OGCD so you can press it, And then we can give paladin Clemency 2 as a GCD

I'm pretty much saying lets not change clemency as it is but also implement a way for paladin to heal OGCD wise, wouldn't that be best of both worlds? I mentioned removing things such as shield bash because it has less use cases then current clemency, we can generally keep clemency but still give PLD a OGCD.

It's not also busted on PLD to have a bit more utility or a raw heal like warrior considering how much the tanks lacking defensively right now.