Fix PLD's Rotation

[HyperiusUltima]

Just going to say this: PLD's rotation as it is right now is detrimental to itself. Why? Because they're the only job that does not play into the 2m Burst Window when it's up. While they are flexible in their rotation when Requiescat is up, the cast times are different in terms of GCD.

While you can use Skill Speed to fix your GCD to 2.44(or 2.42), Spell Speed is a factor because PLD USES SPELLS WHEN USING HOLY SPIRIT/CONFITEOR COMBO. The recasts are different which is a major issue for PLD in the long-run and is a large contributor as to why people have been dropping PLD for DRK/GNB in the current progression of the tier - it doesn't play into raid buffs like any other job, instead it plays itself and winds up being lower damage by a large margin as shown by the site that shall not be named.

Considering they literally were trying to fix everything to the 2m Burst Window this expansion, it's odd how a single job can be left out of the loop. Either fix their rotation to fit into the Burst Window, or throw us a bone by fixing HS/Confiteor's GCD to Skill Speed instead of Spell Speed.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Don't get it twisted. People are dropping PLD and WAR for DRK/GNB because the former two have notably inferior DPS.

While PLD's rotation has issues (depending on who you ask), the balance problem is a matter of numbers. I mean, just look at WAR.

[HyperiusUltima]

Don't get it twisted. People are dropping PLD and WAR for DRK/GNB because the former two have notably inferior DPS.

While PLD's rotation has issues (depending on who you ask), the balance problem is a matter of numbers. I mean, just look at WAR.

For WAR's sake, it is numbers. For PLD, it's having Goring thrown out of the Raid Buff Window at the end after 3-4 cycles of both Req/FoF rotations. That in itself is a DPS loss because of how PLD is designed rotationally. At most, you're losing 1s via dropping an Atonement and losing more GCDs within the Buff Window every 2 rotations if there is no downtime. The whole reason why PLD is behind is because they don't fit into the Raid Buff Window like the rest of the jobs naturally if you're not dropping any GCDs. They're the only job that ignores this fact in game design when they brought about Endwalker - where the Devs wanted us to focus on 2m Burst.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

It's numbers for both.

Aligning more of PLD's "burst" with 2 minutes buffs will help, but it's not going to solve the issue unless you drastically alter PLD's rotation so that it somehow funnels all of its "burst" into 2 minute buffs. Some players might be in favor of this.

[Rithy255]

Don't get it twisted. People are dropping PLD and WAR for DRK/GNB because the former two have notably inferior DPS.

While PLD's rotation has issues (depending on who you ask), the balance problem is a matter of numbers. I mean, just look at WAR.

Pretty sure Paladin had the lowest PC people have been dropping it coming into endwalker. before this, but it's partly right even more are dropping it.

I think more or less Paladin has so many small issues that it's becoming more and more noticable, less worth picking over Gunbreaker or Dark knight (Or even warrior really)
Paladin Firstly struggles with dps, potency buffs are Good, but fixing things such as skill speed/speed speed would do quite a bit to help paladin. The fights in the current tier I've heard has issues with paladin not being able to block DOT's and Hallowed ground is way too long ontop of that.

Theirs small issues such as cover being useless, Lacking one personal mit for one party mit, doesn't benefit from divine veil unlike other tanks benefiting from their own raid wides, a big chunk of its self healing is tied to rotation instead of paladin choosing to use self healing (not counting clemency), the only self healing outside of req/blades is going to be holy shelltron which mentioned its having some weird struggles with how blocks work.

I think Paladin is fun, it's enjoyable I love the tank but theirs so many changes outside of "fix damage numbers" why the job isn't popular, Theirs also another big reason that jobs that are generally more simple get a lot more players, not to say that's the fault of the player but why take something thats really complicated (in comparison) to optimise when you can generally be more comfy and have a easier rotation, in Paladins case all the other tanks have better general dps and defensives (not that pld is weak but its way more situational and janky).

[Eclipse12187]

Wasn’t there a whole thing at the start of 6.0 were pld was doing fof 18 seconds prepull to hit goring blade into RQ window for burst.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

-snip-

PLD has been bad all expansion because its DPS has been bad all expansion. The issue is being drummed up again, but harder this time, because P8S's DPS check is real.

The job's defensive shortcomings just add insult to injury, outside of the concrete disadvantage it faces in DSR P6. They cement the idea that there's no reason to bring a PLD to raid, even if it's a mild exaggeration.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that PLD has issues outsides of numbers, but I really don't think there would be much of a conversation taking place if its damage was good.

[Rithy255]

PLD has been bad all expansion because its DPS has been bad all expansion. The issue is being drummed up again, but harder this time, because P8S's DPS check is real.

The job's defensive shortcomings just add insult to injury, outside of the concrete disadvantage it faces in DSR P6. They cement the idea that there's no reason to bring a PLD to raid, even if it's a mild exaggeration.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that PLD has issues outsides of numbers, but I really don't think there would be much of a conversation taking place if its damage was good.

Oh for sure damage numbers are the main issue, but it's a great opportunity to address Paladin as a whole, if it was defensively good like warrior you'd have people say "at least its good defensively" but you can't. I think it's very important to treat defensives just as important, number balance, "just buff x potency lol" doesn't lead to much productivity, while taking about general changes ontop of that generally does.

Last raid tier Paladin was struggling but in a ok spot during 6.1 (I believe), the player base im pretty sure was still kinda low, even if you buffed paladins numbers to be on par with Dark knight there would be more drk, gnb players (possibly warrior even if it was lower but not far behind) Just because of the nature of Paladins current kit is generally less appealing then other tanks, It's hard to say I think you make a good point with the bad dps issue I do think that's where a lot of the player base doesn't really want to use it as much as the other tanks as it's generally easier to get into something like a Warrior or Gunbreaker and tank on it.

I would say that people were really complaining about Dark before its numbers were high, now I feel like they put big numbers on it less people are generally complaining (While dark has its problems, it's not really bad in raids). Paladin would be in a similar situation if they gave it big numbers for next tier, so I do kinda hope some smaller (but very real issues), they do need to make some slight adjustments to skill speed imo, I do think it's a good Idea to fix both, sure we can slap big numbers on PLD, but it generally isn't going to fix everything, I'll be happy but I know I'd want a bit more then that.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

There was a similar conversation that happened for P4S door boss week 1, but that check wasn't tight enough for people to really start pointing fingers.

Then again, I imagine people are extra pissed right now because the issue has remained mostly unaddressed by the developers.

[Mithron]

I think rather than trying to force it to fit the burst windows better, I'd rather them see buff the potencies on PLD/WAR so there's less of a gap difference in DPS and then also nuke the whole 2 minute burst window concept for all jobs. I wanted it, I got it, now I hate it because I realized it doesn't make the game more fun after all.