The sad state of Coils of Bahamut.

[Arohk]

Greetings, i just had a little discussion in the game about Coils of Bahamut, because every now and then people in the NN try to find a party for it but it is almost impossible.
The only way to do Coils is soloing it on 80/90, Or on external Discord groups to organize a synched party.

The content of Coils is pretty dead in it's current state, and desperately needs a rework similar to the MSQ raids.

Coils 1-5 could be reworked to be normal 4 man dungeons, maybe make them into two dungeons instead of 5 smaller instances.

Coils part 2 and 3 need a tweak on their difficulty, maybe similar to alexander raids so they can be added into raid roulette.

These changes would add a little bit more variety to the roulettes and give new players an actual way to experience the Bahamut story early in the game.

There is still the savage version of Coils for those who seek more challenge.

[FireMage]

T1-13 are fine as is, just like how all the older Savage Raids are fine as is. We don't need more wasted dev effort on things that aren't broken

[vetch]

No thanks. Synced Coils groups run daily on both NA Data Centers I play on. The only thing introducing them to roulettes would accomplish is creating a demand in the playerbase for the most interesting fights in the game to be nerfed down to the level where DF groups can clear them within 2-3 pulls. People don't do normal raid roulette for variety, they do it for rewards.

There is still the savage version of Coils for those who seek more challenge.

There is no Savage version of first or third Coils. Furthermore the normal Coils themselves approach Extreme or Savage-level difficulty, and the so-called "Savage Coils" are closer in difficulty to Ultimates. What you're asking for is for some mid-to-high skill content to be cut from the game so that people can see a sidestory they can already see by unsyncing it.

[SaberMaxwell]

I'd hope any tuning they do would be closer to Unreal reimaginings rather than making them into 4-man dungeons.

[Rongway]

There is still the savage version of Coils for those who seek more challenge.

There is not. The Coils are the Savage raid series from ARR. This is why they are not in any roulettes.
The Second Coil has a "savage" mode that is just the original difficulty before Second Coil underwent some nerfs while it was still relevant but it is not "the savage version" as we know the contemporary raid series to have.

[flowerfairy]

I don't want the current Coils to be completely removed. I'd rather it be a Minstrel's Ballad series or something like a crystal remnant you get after completing the revised version. I think T1, T2, T4, T5 have enemies that can work as proper bosses. T3 could be a solo-instance like in Omega.

Coils is not fine, it's dead content. It can't be compared to other old Savage raids because those raids have a Normal version completable in DF. Synced PF runs are not enough for sprouts that want to do it when the few people that like to run it synced aren't awake or willing to go through it again. Say what you want about development effort and time, but it should be updated just like how Praetorium and Guildhests and Hall of the Novice and Crystal Tower should be updated: a place to teach sprouts how to play the game we're playing today.

Many people don't trust SE in making difficult content. I don't either. Many people aren't happy with what ShB changed (healer kits, stance dancing, resource management, raid template, etc). I'm not happy either. But this has nothing to do with Coils. High-end difficulty should not be centered around level 50, it should be centered around the endgame level. Whether SE continues to make endgame fight designs like they are now, or for some reason they decide "we don't want money anymore" and drastically change the entire design philosophy back to ARR/HW, is a completely different discussion. But level 50 content should be modeled after the content that sprouts are going to experience in later expansions. If future expansions didn't exponentially shift gameplay design from ARR, I wouldn't mind Coils as it is now. But it does, so I want a smoother transition for sprouts.

[vetch]

Many people don't trust SE in making difficult content. I don't either. Many people aren't happy with what ShB changed (healer kits, stance dancing, resource management, raid template, etc). I'm not happy either. But this has nothing to do with Coils. High-end difficulty should not be centered around level 50, it should be centered around the endgame level. Whether SE continues to make endgame fight designs like they are now, or for some reason they decide "we don't want money anymore" and drastically change the entire design philosophy back to ARR/HW, is a completely different discussion. But level 50 content should be modeled after the content that sprouts are going to experience in later expansions. If future expansions didn't exponentially shift gameplay design from ARR, I wouldn't mind Coils as it is now. But it does, so I want a smoother transition for sprouts.

Lord preserve us from people who want the videogame to be more formulaic and samey. We don't need any more encounters where you heal up a raidwide at 30 seconds, invuln a tankbuster exactly when it comes off cooldown, and step into where an AoE just went off to avoid another, while the boss patiently waits for you in the center of the arena so not a single melee positional needs to be worked for or worried over. No, please, I'll take Coils, where they actually experimented a bit with mechanics.

I don't think for a moment that changing the raid design is what turned FF14 into the cash cow it became in Shadowbringers and not, like, its story, or its fanbase's relentless word of mouth advertising. Or the free trial. Or the global pandemic forcing us all to stay indoors. Or the rapid collapse of all its competition in the MMO market.

Funnily enough, Coils would work fine with the current endgame kit design with very few changes because it has more to heal and more to tank in proportion to the HP totals you have than content that's supposed to be for 'full' toolkits at level 90. The real problem with low-level content is that because Square's fostered a playerbase that expects every expansion to have 3 or 4 NEW! EXCITING! skills per job, the low-level kits get skeletonized more and more every expac to clear out button slots.

[Jojoya]

If you're getting that many requests in NN for Coils groups, why aren't the mentors on your world working together to organize clear runs for those asking?

Yes, I understand that it's not a mentor's job to give other players clears but are there truly none who have the desire to help those asking besides trying to pawn it off on SE as "the system needs a fix"?

[flowerfairy]

snip
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Once again, this is not what I’m arguing against. Coils is fun and interesting! It would be great if Savage Pandemonium played similarly to Coils! But you cannot expect to clear Coils with a random DF group without teaching the fight beforehand. Please reread my first sentence: I do not want present Coils to go away, I want a normal Coils that can be cleared with a random party.

What content in Raid/Trial roulette doesn’t fit that criteria you listed? This goes back to even ARR Hard mode. The “tankbusters” are cleaves that tickle, the raidwides tickle, the safe spots are still obvious, the boss stands still auto attacking for an entire minute, some adds pop up and sometimes you can ignore them completely. This is how all normal fights play. Not asking for any more encounters like this is asking for no more encounters at all. And the thing is, making it any harder than that will make DF groups disband because a wipe being decided by a curebot is not fun when you want to go through dailies.

Sprouts don’t know what’s going on in primals and nobody cares because you don’t see it again. At least introducing more relevant mechanics that, as of right now only show up in Castrum/Prae, will keep players on their toes. Optional content like Coils would be the best place to start introducing mechanics that are more complex and hit harder than what you see in primals. You can still die in Eden and Pandemonium, so the whole idea that Coils is going to be so easy that you can stand and bad and not die is a bit over-the-top.

I understand you want fights to be less monotonous, but level 50 is not the place for that. You are no longer new to the game, so this stuff is boring and easy for you. But sprouts have not played through ShB and EW yet. They’re being told by us, “Oh yeah coils is actually way harder than all the other raids just don’t bother playing it synced for now” and the only 8-player content they have reasonable access to is primals. There is nowhere else to learn to play with a co-tank or co-healer. That’s why I want normal Coils.

[Iscah]

There is no Savage version of first or third Coils. Furthermore the normal Coils themselves approach Extreme or Savage-level difficulty, and the so-called "Savage Coils" are closer in difficulty to Ultimates. What you're asking for is for some mid-to-high skill content to be cut from the game so that people can see a sidestory they can already see by unsyncing it.

The simple solution, then, is to keep the old raids as they are, maybe relabel them all to "extreme", and create new story versions. You can still do your group runs if you like, but people can also see the story at their own pace.