Thread: 7.0 News from Reddit.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

- FF4, FF6, FF7, FF9, FF10 (kinda, especially in the new sound novel they made as a sequel to 10-2) FF13... but it's complicated. And FF15. These are all mainline games where at least one of the main playable characters dies permanently at some point.
- Crisis Core and Type-0 feature the death of the entire playable roster. Though Type-0 does have a way to avert it, but it doesn't erase the fact that those deaths still happened.
- Dissidia 012 kills off its prologue characters before the main Dissidia campaign. They're brought back somehow in NT tho.
- FFT makes it ambiguous whether or not the main character and his sister survive. We don't know whether he's actually alive, Delita's dying hallucination or just a gratuitous image to contrast the circumstances of Delita's death, like an allegory.

Death does happen somewhat regularly. It's never the entire cast except for two games: the first one is a single-player adventure, so it doesn't count, and the 2nd one has a secret ending where you can un-make the entire campaign.

Edit: If anyone's curious, the FF10 death is that Tidus is such a bigshot blitzball player and neglects Yuna for a bit, he then goes to the beach, finds a ball, thinks it's a Blitzball and kicks it. It's actually a Bomb and he dies. Yuna mourns him and tries to bring him back, but out of nowhere, Sin comes back. The end. Just... no further context, that's all the narration says xD

Tellah in IV is solid and you missed Galuf in V. VI isn't a given. Shadow doesn't have to die. Aerith in VII is one of the obvious ones, of course. Vivi dies in IX offscreen and after the final battle. X is solid though X-2's canon ending reverses it and then that sound novel reverses that reversal and then reverses it again (yeah that's not confusing). LR reverses the deaths that happened in XIII. XV is solid...kind of. The intended story to my understanding would have been resolved quite differently.

But there are other series. Fei goes to the end of the world to rescue Elly in Xenogears and the entire party comes home triumphantly. The cast of Chrono Trigger travel to the past and the future and beyond to defeat Lavos and comes home triumphantly. Alex saves Luna in the first Lunar game when she's been overtaken as her Althena persona by singing their song to her and everyone comes home triumphantly. Even in the first game in this series, the Warriors of Light travel into the past and defeat Garland as Chaos and...return home triumphantly.

Some games subvert this. Type-0 like you mentioned. Rose at the end of Legend of Dragoon because she's someone out of time, though the very end gives some hope there. That's why I said not unheard of even in this series. But it's just not a trend you see in JRPGs a lot.

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Tellah in IV is solid and you missed Galuf in V. VI isn't a given. Shadow doesn't have to die. Aerith in VII is one of the obvious ones, of course. Vivi dies in IX offscreen and after the final battle. X is solid though X-2's canon ending reverses it and then that sound novel reverses that reversal and then reverses it again (yeah that's not confusing). LR reverses the deaths that happened in XIII. XV is solid...kind of. The intended story to my understanding would have been resolved quite differently.

But there are other series. Fei goes to the end of the world to rescue Elly in Xenogears and the entire party comes home triumphantly. The cast of Chrono Trigger travel to the past and the future and beyond to defeat Lavos and comes home triumphantly. Alex saves Luna in the first Lunar game when she's been overtaken as her Althena persona by singing their song to her and everyone comes home triumphantly. Even in the first game in this series, the Warriors of Light travel into the past and defeat Garland as Chaos and...return home triumphantly.

Some games subvert this. Type-0 like you mentioned. Rose at the end of Legend of Dragoon because she's someone out of time, though the very end gives some hope there. That's why I said not unheard of even in this series. But it's just not a trend you see in JRPGs a lot.

Yep, it's not. That's the point I was trying to make: that while death IS a recurring thing, they either subvert it somehow or it ends up being a very minor character\minor moment. It never is the death of the whole cast, and in Type-0, it's made abundantly clear that the cast isn't the same most loops, and that Arecia just throws it all into the bin and lets people live happily and normally.

This is how Final Fantasy is like. This is how most JRPGs tend to be, as they're often modelled after FF or Dragon Quest. I'd say the only exception is the Shin Megami Tensei series, and even then it's not something that always happens.

And death isn't meant to be the ending to the Scions. Nor was Endwalker meant to be the end of them as a group. They've disbanded just to pursue their own interests, they'd likely be back later in the future if called to it. However, this would have been the perfect chance to either expand or make a new group.

It might be too early to tell. But from what we're seeing that won't happen. They're just going to make characters they've already established take on a new role.

...also ._. I forgot Galuf despite him literally being the reason Forbidden Land Eureka exists. F.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...also ._. I forgot Galuf despite him literally being the reason Forbidden Land Eureka exists. F.

And in a thread about Krile, for shame

Oh and they must have changed the X-2 sequel thing a bit. Last I read about it, she did bring him back but she can't tell him and the secret X ending is supposed to be after that. Or something. It's weird. VIII's story makes more sense compared to what they did there.

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

*snip*

this is all well and good. WoW did take on a poor direction, I realized as it got worse that nothing I could say or do would change that. just like your opinion is unlikely to change the direction of this game.

best advice I ever saw was.. they wont change just because you feel pouty about it, if they have stopped earning your money.. stop giving it to them.

after thinking about it, WoW had stopped earning it and I stopped giving to them. presently, FFxiv still earns mine I think, which is all that matters. you mention a lot about how it caters to twitter, what basis do you have for that? because people there dont think like you? they could just be catering to their main target audience, which is japanese.

thing is, no game developer is going to ask themselves that and you wouldnt like it even more if they did. Wildstar listened to their players. so much so it destroyed the game.

so, as in all things, be very very careful what you wish for. because they wont implement things the way you want, even if they bring in what you want. thats reality. you are you, they arent, so whatever they do will never be what you want.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

- FF4, FF6, FF7, FF9, FF10 (kinda, especially in the new sound novel they made as a sequel to 10-2) FF13... but it's complicated. And FF15. These are all mainline games where at least one of the main playable characters dies permanently at some point.
- Crisis Core and Type-0 feature the death of the entire playable roster. Though Type-0 does have a way to avert it, but it doesn't erase the fact that those deaths still happened.
- Dissidia 012 kills off its prologue characters before the main Dissidia campaign. They're brought back somehow in NT tho.
- FFT makes it ambiguous whether or not the main character and his sister survive. We don't know whether he's actually alive, Delita's dying hallucination or just a gratuitous image to contrast the circumstances of Delita's death, like an allegory.

Death does happen somewhat regularly. It's never the entire cast except for two games: the first one is a single-player adventure, so it doesn't count, and the 2nd one has a secret ending where you can un-make the entire campaign.

Edit: If anyone's curious, the FF10 death is that Tidus is such a bigshot blitzball player and neglects Yuna for a bit, he then goes to the beach, finds a ball, thinks it's a Blitzball and kicks it. It's actually a Bomb and he dies. Yuna mourns him and tries to bring him back, but out of nowhere, Sin comes back. The end. Just... no further context, that's all the narration says xD And since there's no follow-up, he's still dead.

FF9, which playable character dies before the end of the game? FF10, same. FF6, what shadow, who you can just choose not to wait for? FF15? dying at the end of the game doesn't count when we're talking about comparing it to an mmo. FF13 had timeline nonsense.

VII and IV has arguably the only meaningful character death when you're actually controlling the character. Almost none of the FF games have a death where the story continues, and you simply cannot play with that character anymore. I think it's disingenuous to try to paint FFXIV as this happy go lucky story when it's dealt with themes just as dark as any of the Final Fantasy games. Are we really going to pretend that FFVII Remake doesn't have just as much fanservice and out of place nonsense?

I didn't enjoy Endwalker really at all, I thought it read like a depressed teenager writing a fan fiction, but to say that nothing meaningful happens to characters is just wrong. If you don't like a character, just say it, let's not pretend that death would suddenly make the stakes "real" again.

as if that wasn’t one of the reasons why 6.0 has been criticized for the way in which it handled both its pacing and the main cast.

BY YOU.

No one else.

And, naturally, if she is to come with us then the last thing we need

Who is "we"?