Thread: 7.0 News from Reddit.

Originally Posted by Rannie

Hmm what about the Ex Mistbeard pirate captain who is the second in command of limsa and the maelstrom? He's a masculine Roe and doesn't completely fall under the stupid brawns category or act is all boisterous like goesetsu

Someone hasn't gotten to rank 10 on their facebook island~!
Needless to say, they even removed the teeth from ol' mistbeard. :/

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

You got 10 likes. I got a headache.

Didn't you hear? More upboats- ah likes, the more internet points you earn! It's like an online gamer score! <3
Critical thought and common sense rarely get the public's attention, sorry. :^(

Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Someone hasn't gotten to rank 10 on their facebook island~!
Needless to say, they even removed the teeth from ol' mistbeard. :/


Didn't you hear? More upboats- ah likes, the more internet points you earn! It's like an online gamer score! <3
Critical thought and common sense rarely get the public's attention, sorry. :^(

Actually I have gotten to rank ten sweetie next time check my achievements before assuming so. *smiles sweetly in a simpering fashion* this is how you want me to be right? Besides remember hes the one that came up with tying two ships together for us to fight leviathan and did that as mistbeard as well. May want to rewatch those cutscenes again.

Originally Posted by Raoabolic

I'm not your sweetie m8 and I don't check other people's background since that feels kind of petty imo. All your example does is showcase how drastically the pre SB story and post SB story has changed. FYI, coming off as passive aggressive does nothing for your argument. :^)

Bless your little heart child. =)

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

We're doing this? Okay...

Are we doing "this"? What's this? The mildly annoying thing where you have to shred a post into different quotes and address them?

I'd trim some bits out to keep my response shorter, but then you'd probably say I'm dodging parts of your argument or something.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Taking your character as an example, I assume she'd speak with a trill? Because U'odh Nunh speaks with one. Yet just because he exists, should he thus be taken as representation of normal Miqo'te behaviour? Miqo'te aren't defined by those speech patterns, and haven't been portrayed like that since. Meaning he's an exception, not a norm.

You may need to take a closer look at my character picture.

That said, I do keep forgetting my actual U tribe Miqo'te character should speak with that accent (though I'd sooner come up with an excuse why he doesn't, so I don't have to try to mentally insert it). My Lominsan Miqo'te definitely wouldn't because we don't see anyone from there doing it.

In any case, I don't see how someone mistakenly extrapolating one character's traits to the entire race is proof that there's a problem with how the whole race is portrayed. If anything, it's the opposite.

You're looking at a few Roegadyn with traits you dislike, and insisting that all of them are portrayed that way, and then saying that the portrayal of Roegadyn is problematic because they're all portrayed that way.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Representation doesn't work with background NPCs because they don't have any major relevance. As such they tend to be one-dimensional characters, token at best.

:T If people are asking for representation, it's in the main\secondary rosters (secondary: Lyna, Gosetsu, Julius...).

By that definition, certainly Eynzahr is a secondary character, on par with Lyna as the very constantly present second-in-command to a city leader, regularly appearing across different plot threads as a major representative of Limsa. In fact I'd put him as only slightly less prominent than Merlwyb herself, a reliable presence throughout the game, and more distinct than Jullus who has only been a supporting character in a single story arc so far.

Another one I remembered is Rasho from the Confederates, who again is at least on par with Jullus as an important character for one location but little presence beyond it.

And of course, the big one - no pun intended - is Biggs. He's shown to be a smart engineer and craftsman equal to any of the other Ironworks members.

Also, even if smaller parts are flat and "token", they still build up a picture, and there are plenty of parts in that picture that say "Roegadyn don't always act like dumb brutes".

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Not to mention that, like Jettinson said, Eorzean Roegadyn are always portrayed as loud and boisterous, even as voiceless NPCs. The Roegadyn we find in the Ruby Sea seem to follow that trait, albeit slightly toned down. And Sharlayan Roes act like everyone else in Sharlayan. Which is less a stereotype of Roegadyn and similar body types, and more a stereotype of Sharlayan people in general, which Rammbroes follows.

Again, that's just your judgement, and I don't agree with it. I think you're making a strawman of "all Roegadyn behave like X" and then saying it's a problem that all Roegadyn behave like X, while overlooking or dismissing the ones that behave otherwise.

There are Roegadyn that are fishermen or healers or competent craftsmen or a whole blur of other things. One of the first things that stood out to me about this game is how all the fantasy races of "orcs and elves" and whatever are just treated as people and aren't shoehorned into only the one racial stereotype.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

So if you want to consider background NPCs, then by your standards, Lyna = Lilja Sjasaris in terms of relevance for Viera.

Aside of the big technicality that Lyna is Viis rather than Viera (as similar as those cultures may be), yes, I do see them equally as "examples of how a Viera might act in society". I don't extrapolate from either of them that all characters of their race culturally act the way they do. They're just one piece in a puzzle that I want to assemble as much of as I can.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove with this.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

People liked Rammbroes but aren't expected to connect with him, unlike Gosetsu.

Aside of being a bit of a jump of assumptions about what we do and don't connect with, what does that have to do with his base personality? We spend enough time with him to have a gauge of what he's like, and he's an intelligent and thoughtful man. But he doesn't fit the stereotype you want to complain about Roegadyn having, so you discount him.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Plus, I DID mention tertiary NPCs, or did you miss the bit on Hrothgar NPCs? Bc it's curious how you focus on Roes, but I mention Hrothgar NPCs and yet you skip that :T Especially when I point to one NPC that does fit the bill. They're one of 2 races I pointed as fitting, why aren't you mentioning more? Because here's the thing, as I sat here and realized this, I also remembered one Hrothgar NPC that also fits: Rostik. Yet Bajsaljen and Rostik are one-dimensional characters. Good if people enjoy and connect with them, but you're hard-pressed to say they're representation of Hrothgars in the MSQ. So again, why aren't you acknowleding this, despite defending NPCs?

I didn't talk about Hrothgar because I was only addressing your assertion that Roegadyn are all portrayed a specific way, which they are not. The portrayal of Hrothgar, good or otherwise, does not relate to that argument.

And yes, it is rather hard for side-story characters to represent their race in the MSQ, but you didn't set that as a criterion in your previous post as far as I can see. You just said representation in FFXIV, and the writers do create the stories with an expectation that people will engage with side content.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Also, this was about the males? The whole point of bringing up Moenbryda was that EVEN SHE is brash and boisterous, like the Roe stereotype... XD I never once negated all her other traits. I even said the same about Gosetsu. That was the point. Go read my post.

I read your post. You talked about male Roegadyn and then brought up Moenbryda (and Merlwyb) as having the same personality as your "all Roegadyn". So I responded to that.

And again, the brashness is only one aspect of her personality, and we are shown other facets of her, so I don't think it's fair to reduce her to that one aspect as if it's her only one.

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

"Their design lends well to the stereotype but there are also plenty of characters who break it."

1 - Design doesn't justify stereotype.
2 - Not "plenty", as they're outnumbered by those who don't.
3 - They break it in the background.
4 - Representation does a better job at breaking stereotypes.
5 - Representation isn't done with tertiary characters, that's just common sense and a bit of literary studies.

You got 10 likes. I got a headache.

I don't even know where to start.

You're reducing anything that doesn't fit your argument to insignificant and then dismissing it.

I don't even know how many prominent Roegadyn you're counting by the strict standards you're applying to who is worthy of representing them.