Poor Savage reward system

[Ransu]

"Other MMOs are worse, so this barely passable system is perfectly fine."

I don't think other MMO's are worse for having a lockout system. I'm perfectly ok with either lockout system. FFXIV is simply the better compromise, but lockouts are a necessary thing.

[Packetdancer]

Why can't I join P5S PF parties for practice without sabotaging their loot because I've already cleared this week with my static? I'm not looking for an extra book or more loot, I just wanna practice in PF.

If the ability to roll on loot was not impacted by the other people in the party -- even if you yourself are limited to rolling only on your first clear -- you can still immediately cheese it.

Say everyone in the static has two characters, their main and an alt. You're off to do your reclears for the week; you can have one person run as their real 'main' character, and everyone else runs their alts. You clear the fight, and the person on their main rolls on (and gets) all the loot. Now the next person logs out their alt and logs in their real/main character, and you run again; the first person having gotten their loot has no impact on the loot that drops, so now static member #2 rolls on (and gets) everything. Now static member #3 logs out their alt and logs in their main, and...

Yes, it seems ludicrously high-effort to run a fight eight times in a week just to funnel the maximum amount of gear to your group, but:

1. If it were possible, people would do it -- whether or not it's healthy/sane.
2. If people were doing it, other people would potentially end up pressured to do it just so their static can be 'optimal'.

That said, as I've noted in other threads, I do still think it'd be reasonable to allow one person in the party to have cleared already before deducting chests. Allowing just one does not open the door to that sort of absurd gear-cheesing, but it makes it easier for a static to find a sub when someone's missing, or for someone who already cleared to pop in and help a clear party.

The ultimate (6.3 planned?) and the criterion savage dungeon in 6.25 will both be gear gated and require savage BiS to attempt. With bad rolls, you aren't going to even have half the gear to do criterion savage by the time it drops if you have to rely on books to gear up.

I seem to recall reading that the Criterion dungeon savage mode will require i620, though I cannot find a source anywhere for any ilevel requirement for Criterion to sanity-check myself there. (If anyone else has an actual source on the ilevel requirement, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.)

In which case, you could meet that ilevel requirement solely with a set of unaugmented Lunar Envoy gear, no need for savage stuff (much less savage BiS). Which is still potentially annoying, I grant, but it's also perfectly achievable.

Edit: As for ultimate, I may be wrong on this (I have a migraine, so frankly, take anything I say today with a grain of salt), but I could swear it actually just force-syncs you to a specific ilevel. For instance, Dragonsong's Reprise syncs you to ilevel 605, but the savage BiS last tier -- even with the i605 Asphodelos weapon -- still averages out to i600 (as that was the max for every other piece of gear). Yes, substats matter -- hence specific ultimates still having calculated BiS sets to maximize the benefits -- but I don't think you actually strictly speaking have to be in savage BiS for a given tier to queue in.

(I mean, you have to clear the tier to queue in, so chances are you're in BiS at some point there regardless, but still.)

I did just log in and checked my saved DSR gearset (e.g. last tier's BiS) and confirmed it's only i600, not i605.

[Nezerius]

Edit: As for ultimate, I may be wrong on this (I have a migraine, so frankly, take anything I say today with a grain of salt), but I could swear it actually just force-syncs you to a specific ilevel. For instance, Dragonsong's Reprise syncs you to ilevel 605, but the savage BiS last tier -- even with the i605 Asphodelos weapon -- still averages out to i600 (as that was the max for every other piece of gear). Yes, substats matter -- hence specific ultimates still having calculated BiS sets to maximize the benefits -- but I don't think you actually strictly speaking have to be in savage BiS for a given tier to queue in.

(I mean, you have to clear the tier to queue in, so chances are you're in BiS at some point there regardless, but still.)

I did just log in and checked my saved DSR gearset (e.g. last tier's BiS) and confirmed it's only i600, not i605.

Ultimate only ever syncs you down to the duty's average iLvl, it doesn't force any gear up to the average iLvl.
The reason why DSR is set to iLvl 605 is to avoid Asphodelos weapons from getting synced down, as a synced down item doesn't take any materia into account.

[Packetdancer]

Ultimate only ever syncs you down to the duty's average iLvl, it doesn't force any gear up to the average iLvl.
The reason why DSR is set to iLvl 605 is to avoid Asphodelos weapons from getting synced down, as a synced down item doesn't take any materia into account.

Sorry, yeah, I didn't really explain what I was thinking there clearly. (Honestly, I'm not sure I'm explaining anything well here today; migraine has scrambled all thoughts.)

What I was trying to say is that I do not think that you are locked specifically to needing to queue in with savage BiS.

[Stasya]

The system isn't too bad if you have Static, but definately atrocious if you do stuff via PF. I guess if you want to play multiple Jobs it does take too long to get them geared.

This system and 450 tomestone lock is bad even if you have static.

[Moeru_Kitsune]

I still believe that the reward system for Savage should be somewhat similar to the Normal mode. Perhaps only drop two chests period regardless of whether or not all players have not cleared that week, but only allow those who have not gotten a gear piece that week for that raid to roll. If you get a clear, but roll low and miss out on gear that clear, then just hit the raid up again for another clear. This would solve two problems: the first obviously being the gear issue, and the second would be more play time in that respective raid. More often than not, players will only do a Savage raid until they get that weekly clear, then not touch it again until the next week, moving on to the next raid in the tier. The main idea for Savage raids is to give players a challenge outside of normal dungeons and trials, but with how difficult Savage raids are outside of static groups, it should be rewarding to all who manage to complete them. I know some players who have cleared the same raid a few times, never getting any gear, and have basically said 'Screw this', and never touched Savage again. The current reward system is obviously catered directly towards static groups who will work together to help each other, while most others who are forced to use the PF system are essentially every man for himself. In short, the current reward system, even with the need/greed/pass system in place, is completely unfair. At the very least, they should drop 4 coffers for a clear, one for tanks, one for healers, and two for DPS. Only tanks can roll on tank coffers, healers on healer coffers, and DPS on DPS coffers.

[LianaThorne]

I'm just for keeping it simple with 2 or 3 chests, one drop per week per raid. If you don't get your chest drop for the week on first attempt you can go back in and try to get it, then resulting in your lockout of getting further loot from said fight until next weekly reset. Only one book drop per fight per week, period.

Will still force people to farm but open up room to start saving up books to gear other classes/spend on your main if your RNG is garbage.

[Oizen]

Its the way it is solely to keep you subbed, and nothing else.

Its not designed for you to get the items in a timely manner, its designed to keep you playing on the same content, over and over.

[ty_taurus]

Its the way it is solely to keep you subbed, and nothing else.

Its not designed for you to get the items in a timely manner, its designed to keep you playing on the same content, over and over.

That doesn't make it okay though. When something is broken, the solution is to fix it, not go "well that's just the way it is now."

[Raoabolic]

That doesn't make it okay though. When something is broken, the solution is to fix it, not go "well that's just the way it is now."

*looks at the state of video games*
*looks at the state of entertainment*
No. I think this is a solution "everyone" is happy with. :^(
Edit: This guy can explain it better. It's only 45s or so. You don't have to watch the entire thing. <3